Why the anger?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by APuritanMindset, Sep 3, 2005.

  1. APuritanMindset

    APuritanMindset
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    This is an honest question:

    Why does "everyone" (that is a generalization) get so brassed off when someone says that God was in complete control of or that He ordained something like Katrina or all the hurricanes last season or 9-11? How come when a verse like this one

    Is a trumpet blown in a city, and the people are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city, unless the LORD has done it? (Amos 3:6 ESV)

    is shown to people that everyone gets all mad and stuff?

    I just don't understand it and, frankly, it bothers me greatly.
     
  2. Petrel

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    I get mad when people side with Job's friends and say that because something bad happened, that means the person suffering is under special judgment from God.
     
  3. Frogman

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    Dear Puritan,
    I think it is more in view of the attitude of the poster than it is the message of God.

    Some make themselves to be the harbinger of God's Word alone.

    I do not doubt the very truth of God's hand being in control over both 9-11 and also natural disasters.

    At the same time, I do not wish to point fingers and say, see, those sinners, see God's punishment for sin, I am thankful that I have found grace and mercy and I pray that many will find the same in this time of their physical trouble.

    It is best, imho, that we continually keep in our minds that we by ourselves are no different than any one who we may outwardly label a lost sinner.

    Just some of my thoughts.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  4. Martin

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    Of course God is in conrol of nature and the events of man. Anyone who rejects this is rejecting the clear teaching of Scritpure on the Sovereign nature of God. However I am hearing two rather extreme claims from christians about the hurricane and I wish to address them here (in brief).

    1. The hurricane is the judgment of God for the sinful nature of the city.

    2. The hurricane is just a random event.

    ____________________________________________

    1. The hurricane is the judgment of God for the sinful nature of the city.

    Is the hurricane the judgment of God? I think a Biblical answer is yes and no. Yes it is the judgment of God upon sin, as all storms (etc) are. The earth is under a curse and storms are a result of that curse. However I don't believe the hurricane is a judgment on New Orleans in the same way God judged Sodom and Gomorrah. Why not? Because God always warns His people (ie...Lot, Noah, etc). As it is in New Orleans many of the wicked escaped while many of the godly, who happened to be poor or elderly, could not. Think about Sodom when God judged that city directly for its sins. God warned Lot and his family to escape, even forced them to escape (Gen 19:12-22). As far as we know NO warning was given to the wicked and none of them escaped even though the righteous did. The same with Noah and the flood. The righteous were warned and escaped while there was no escape for the wicked. In New Orleans there was plenty escape for the wicked. Many of the gamblers (etc) easily got out of town. They are not down on the street with no water or food. In other words in New Orleans the wicked escaped and many of the righteous did not. Therefore I don't believe this was a direct judgment on New Orleans (etc). Was this a judgment? Yes. It is part of God's judgment on a sin cursed earth. However one day the curse will be removed (Rev 22:3).

    __________________________________________

    2. The hurricane is just a random event.

    There is no such thing, in a Sovereign God's universe, as a random event. All events have a purpose and a meaning. While it is certainly true that New Orleans was going to get hit by a major hurricane one day (as will most southern coastal states) it would be wrong to say it is random. God is in control of the universe. That is shown throughout the entire Bible.

    In Christ,
    Martin.
     
  5. FundamentalDan

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    I think the basic contention here is not about whether God was in control, but whether He intended this storm to "punish" the residents there. I believe that, though God can exercise His control over all events, He has placed certain laws and patterns in place that He allows to continue. These hurricanes are part of a long pre-existent pattern on the coast. It is not a specific act of judgment, it is a cyclical act that God had placed long ago in effect.
     
  6. El_Guero

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    Puritan

    I agree with Bro. Dallas.
     
  7. Artimaeus

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    Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

    Those who claim to know the specific reason this specific area was specifically targeted are specifically wrong.
     
  8. emeraldctyangel

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    Bro Dallas brings up an interesting point.

    If God is in control (and I believe He is) and He created 911 or Katrina as punishment (which I do not believe) then must He play both sides. For every tragedy, there are 10 acts that display God's mercy and grace.

    I think that when events like Katrina and 911 happen, those of us who were unaffected (that did not have front row seats), attempt to make a judgement call by playing the blame game ("New Orleans is full of sinners anyway, so they deserved it" kind of thinking...).

    I do not know why everyone gets mad. Perhaps we are all confused in the struggle to understand why.
     
  9. Doc1932

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    On what do you base that idea?

    Everything in the universe works and is done at Gods will and Grace. All things good and bad are done according to the will of the lord.
    Take for example Hitler. One man, one human, nothing special. God protected him for 2 decades. No human being on record has ever narrowly missed assasination as many times as he did. He may not have been nice to the jews but he was used as a tool of God.
    God controls it all, we just feel lost because our small minds can't see the big picture. We can only see whats in front of us and that is a very small image to veiw.
     
  10. Helen

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    Katrina was not the worst and will probably be topped by some future hurricane or other natural disaster. A couple of points to make about it, that having been said:

    1. It is interesting that EVERY waterfront casino was wiped out. It is interesting that New Orleans was/is(?) probably the crookedest city in the crookedest state in the union. It is interesting that it was the seat of the Mardi Gras, known for its depravity. It is interesting that it is historically the USA 'center' of voodoo and other similar...

    Just interesting...

    2. It is not disasters which are remarkable, but salvation through them. Noah's Flood was essentially a natural event. The salvation of the human race and the animal populations through it was the miracle. The Plagues of Moses' time were essentially natural events. The fact that the Hebrews were saved out of them was the miracle. Yes, God is in control of natural events, but that does not make them miraculous. Salvation, on the other hand, is.
     
  11. MsGuidedAngel

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    Natural Disasters have been around a lot longer than Any of us here! Just the News is a lot faster around the World now!

    God's Word Says, Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil. ( Ephesians 4:26-27 KJV 1611AV )

    YSIC forever,

    KristiAnn
    MsGuidedAngel
     
  12. Pipedude

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    Either God "wills" something to be, or he "allows" it to be.

    There is a thin line between the two ideas, but choosing "allow" still doesn't "get God off the hook." He could easily have stopped the disaster, and he willingly declined to do so.

    Why he allows the world to be thus is a question we cannot fully answer. Affirming that he does so allow it evokes anger in almost no one.

    The angry responses arise when you cross the thin line and make God the author of [whatever].
     
  13. PastorSBC1303

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    I think a quick read of Job 38-41 would be appropriate here....and then just Let God be God.
     
  14. Ps104_33

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    I think God is giving all of us in Hurricane Alley a wakeup call. When the authorities and meteorologists tell us to evacuate


    GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  15. Terry_Herrington

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    On the surface it is easy to come to this conclusion; however, I saw a report from New Orleans that showed the French Quarter suffered mush less damage than many other sections of the city.
     
  16. webdog

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    There are 300 SBC pastors not accounted for and missing. If this were God's judgement on a city like in the days of S & G, those 300 would have been forewarned of the impending judgement. Martin nailed it when he said that Katrina was neither:

    1. The hurricane is the judgment of God for the sinful nature of the city.

    2. The hurricane is just a random event.

    We do not know God's will on everything, and we need to leave it at that.
     
  17. SBGrace

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    We know that God’s hand is in the whirlwind and we also know that this Country has been blessed by God since the beginning….

    We know in the last days that Jesus prophesized these things would happen….. IMO, does God allow these things to happen… I believe he does…..

    After saying that, doesn’t anyone. but me. see that these scriptures in Luke 13 pertains to this question…….

    Luke 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
     
  18. Dr. Bob

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    My son was at the Astrodome today and said that MANY of the people there would NEVER have heard the Gospel had they remained in New Orleans.

    Even in this tragedy is God's hand and purpose and the saving of His own.
     
  19. TexasSky

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    For me, the bottom line is this. MANY people saying this is God's will are not taking the attitude of Holy God has a purpose for allowing this that we cannot understand, but must trust.
    They are taking the attitude of, "See! Those sinners deserved to die."

    1) I agree with Petrel regarding the attitude of Job's friends and the similiarities.
    2) I agree with Brother Dallas, it is the attitude of the posters. Certainly God is still God, but we aren't God, and we should not point fingers at "those sinners".
    3) A lot of good Christians were harmed by this hurricane.
    4) We are NOT God. The bible speaks of times when people asked Christ why certain things happened and He answers that God might be glorified. Pointing fingers at men and women in need is NOT glorifying God.
    5) AMEN Dr. Bob.
     
  20. APuritanMindset

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    In asking this question, I'm not saying I think it happened because these people are worse than all of us. I wrote in my blog a couple of days ago about the subject of Katrina. That article explains what I believe about it's reason.

    I agree that to pick out these people and pretend it's only them is a bad thing. At the same time, we do need to acknowledge the sovereignty of God in all things.
     

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