Why The Law?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by NetChaplain, May 18, 2016.

  1. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    Would it not serve to be unfair in sending souls into the battlefield short of informing them of how to identify the enemy? For the Christian, all opposition derives itself from three foundations of source; self (old self), Satan and society. I also believe this accounting is in the proper order of priority.

    Yes, “the enemy within” (old man) is the greatest danger, for not only is it where accountability is incurred but I’m convinced the other two enemies must enter through this passage (old self or sinful nature) to reach the saint. Regardless of the evil which God reveals in and to the believer concerning the sinful nature, we must always be mindful that “the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound” (Rom 5:20).

    “That the offence might abound” or shows us to learn the depths of our sin source, in order to continue to learn the heights of God holiness. “Grace did much more abound” is where faith in Christ’s expiation is progressively tested, resulting only towards maturity.


    Why The Law?

    We might consider the question, “What is the proof of the law?” If God meant to give the inheritance by promise, why bring in the law? If you examine the dealings of God with His people in the early days, He promised them a blessing, and they took it without looking at themselves to see whether they deserved it or not. This unquestioning confidence is all very blessed; but it is not for a man’s good not to know what he is. It is of great moment that I should learn what my condition really is*.

    Now the object of the law was to bring out the sinner’s true condition of soul; not at all to bring him into blessing, but to bring out the fearful ruin into which man had got by sin*. The law was not meant to be the rule of life; indeed, it is rather the rule of death (Gal 3:10 – NC). If a man had no such thing as sin, it might be the rule of life; but he being a sinner*, it is an absurd misnomer to call it the rule of life.

    “Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgression” (Gal 3:19). It is not said, “because of sins.” God never would do anything to make one a sinner—but “it was added because of transgressions.” What’s the difference? Sin is in every child of Adam; sin was in man before the law, as much as after. When the whole world was corrupt—when all flesh became so violent that God was obliged to judge it by the flood, it is too clear that they were all sinners. After He gave the law to Israel, they were no longer merely sinners, but became transgressors (which would have been the same for any people, as evidenced by the world’s ways since Christ). Rebels against God’s authority, they became actual violators of His law*.

    “Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners” (1Tim 1:9). Whoever was made righteous by the law? Is he an honest man who merely refrains from taking your watch for fear of being locked up? The only really honest person is he who has the fear of God before his eyes. The law has the effect of punishing those that break it, but it is not what makes a man honest even in a human sense, much less in the divine. Through the faith of Christ one becomes a new man, the possessor of a new life which is dependent and obedient, loving to do the will of the Father because He wishes it, and not merely through dread of going to hell*.

    If you take the law as well as the Lord Jesus, you become at least half a Jew. Actually, you become a spiritual adulterer (Rom 7:1-4). We are called to look at the Lord Jesus, and Him only—He being the source of our life (Col 3:4; 2Cor 3:18). He is the one who creates, and fashions, and constitutes every particle of righteousness and life that the believer possess. So the apostle Paul prays that they might be more and more “filled with the fruits of righteousness.” The natural man would allow the need of the works of righteousness which are demanded by the law*; but he knows nothing of those “fruits of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ unto the glory and praise of God” (Phil 1:11). The law was the rule of death for the sinner; the Lord Jesus Christ is the rule of life for the saint.

    “Wherefore then serveth the law?” The law “was added because of transgressions, till the seed (Christ) should come to whom the promise was made”* (Gal 3:19). God was pleased to use this platform negatively for a time (Acts 17:30 - NC); but now the Seed is come, and the platform is gone concerning the Christian—the believer has died to it*. It is all-important for convicting the sinner, the standard of what a sinful man ought to do for God. But it is neither the reflection of God nor the pattern for the saints; the Lord Jesus is both, and He only.

    - Wm Kelly



    Poster’s Notes:

    *”learn what my condition really is”: It’s not for the believer to only be aware of the indwelling sin nature (old man) but to own up to it while the Spirit of God opposes it in us, which is in accordance to our “yielding to God” (Gal 5:17; Rom 6:13, 19); which nature was manifested even prior to the “transgression” (Gen 3:6; Rom 5:14; 1Tim 2:14).

    It is interesting to note the consistency of Scripture by seeing how Genesis 3:6 and 1John 2:16 directly collate:
    “The woman saw that the tree was good for food” / “the lust of the flesh.”
    “It was pleasant to the eyes” / “the lust of the eyes.”
    “A tree to be desired to make one wise” / “the pride of life.”

    *”got by sin”: since the law reveals the offence, “the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression” (Rom 4:15). Learning the wrong incurs accountability, hence Christ’s statement, “If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.” And, “If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin” (John 15:22, 24). I believe this is why many would rather not know the wrong they do, because “It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life” (2Pet 2:21 NLT).

    *”being a sinner”: the value of a work consists not in the doing as much as it does within its intent (Heb 4:12; Mat 12:35). Therefore the new nature (new man) by the Spirit of God is what causes believers to bring forth works always with good intention, which is more significant than the outcome of the work, which may not necessarily be correct due to the effect of the old nature.

    *”violators of His law”: God’s revelation to Israel (who were a type-representative of mankind) concerning their guilt was too show their need for Him, through revealing not only their condemnation but also redemption from it.

    *”dread of going to hell”: though many initially seek God to avoid hell, which is a show of belief in God and in His Word concerning hell, they eventually learn that it is, “the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance” (Rom 2:4), and it is in His “goodness” that He teaches us His love! It’s obvious that those who do not seek God do not believe in hell, otherwise there would no doubt be a different outcome for most. One never stumbles onto truth, for it must be sought to be found (Mat 7:7), thus condemnation is “inexcusable” apart from Christ.

    *”works of righteousness which are demanded by the law”: which are required by God, not to man but to Christ, which is manifest in His “propitiation,” and which can only be performed by One who is without a sin nature, thereby amplifying the strength of our faith in His atonement alone for receiving and retaining our salvation.

    *”the believer has died to it”: how could one who was never under the law die to it? For the Gentile it refers to the moral law of God (Gen 2:16, 17), which all have always been under. The Gentiles were those “that are without law” e.g. Moses’ Law of God, but were never “without law to God” (1Cor 9:21) e.g. were always accountable to God for morality towards one another. Godliness traverses beyond morality, in that it is the conduct of man towards man, rather than conduct of man towards God.
     
  2. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    I can under the reasons why people would think that the Eze/Jer prophecies would relate also to the Gentile believers, and I can understand why they relate solely to those of Israel blood posterity. I also realize the obscurity of Scriptures relating to this issue, but I believe God is gradually demonstrating His revelation in His Word concerning this very significant teaching.

    I've been for a long time now attempting to biblically determine this issue without spiritualizing Israel to be the Church because I'm best convinced by Scripture confirmation, which for this issue supports mostly that the prophecies mentioned above are Jewish when taken as they read. I'll just share why my understanding is where it is by looking at a model that is apart from spiritualizing and that relates to the mandates of these prophecies.

    "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah." If this covenant included Gentiles there's no sensible reason why they are never mentioned concerning this final covenant with Israel. Plus the covenant Jesus revealed, which is in His "Blood" clearly includes every believer, as revealed in the Gospels. Christ's Blood covenant is not with Israel nor the Gentiles, but with the Father, which is another obscure teaching in Scripture but nonetheless true. If it were a covenant between Jesus and man I believe He would plainly state it just as the prior and future covenant is stated. Hence, this prophetic new covenant of Israel has yet to occur.

    "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers." Clear confirmation that their final covenant will be similar to the prior covenant, which include statues, ordinances and judgments, which are not related in the Blood covenant because it is not law-centric (Jer 31:33); and law (in the specific sense, i.e. ordinances etc,) and grace are separate systems (John 1:17).

    Israel (those who believe in God, but not in Christ until they see Him when these prophecies will take place) will never cease to be a nation on this earth, nor in the new earth (Jer 31:36, 37). When these prophecies occur it will include at least most of the last surviving descendants of Israel.
     
  3. BobRyan

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    You seem to be saying that you reject the New Covenant - you are not under it - it is not for you... it is for some future time?

    Has it come to this??
     
  4. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    Hi BR - Trusting all has been well! I think we have differing concepts concerning the New Covenant (still not common knowledge). The present and only extant covenant at this time is the one, not between man and God but between God and His Son, which is for all believers in Christ. The Father and Son covenanted from eternity past that the Father would raise the Lord Jesus from the dead after providing expiation for man (Heb 13:

    The New and final Covenant for Israel is between that nation and God, which will transpire latter.

    God's blessings to your Family!
     
  5. BobRyan

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    Thank you for clearing up that point. In Hebrews 7 Christ takes on the real High Priestly ministry after the cross of which the earthly priesthood was only a type.

    In Hebrews 8 He begins that ministry in the heavenly sanctuary - of which the earthly sanctuary was only a type. He takes it up after the cross - as a minister of the New Covenant - not like the one that Christ made with Israel at Sinai after He delivered them from Egypt. A covenant which they broke according to the text. Rather He "is now" the minister of that New Covenant - with the House of Israel and the house of Judah - that in Heb 8 is called the "New Covenant" just as Jeremiah called it in Jer 31:31-33 quoted in Hebrews 8.

    The New Covenant is the one and only Gospel - of Gal 1:6-9 where Paul flatly denies that there is any other.

    And in Gal 3:8 - Paul says that very same Gospel was preached to Abraham.

    We are all New Covenant Christians. "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly but He is a Jew who is one inwardly and circumcision is of the heart by the Holy Spirit" Romans 2

    Heb 8:1 "The main point is this"
     
    #5 BobRyan, May 21, 2016
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
  6. BobRyan

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    Now to get the issues clearly before us -- answer this one question - what is the implication if the text as I have quoted it in Hebrews 8 is "the main point" for today - it is for all saved saints - it is the one and only Gospel of Gal 1:6-9?

    Whether you agree with the scenario or not - my question for you is - what are the implications of that "One Gospel" scenario in your view?
     
  7. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    I just believe that the Ezekiel and Jeremiah prophecies are referring to the end-time Jewish nation who will not be a part of the body of Christ, but rather just a people of God, for He said you shall by My people and I shall be your God---but not His children--just His people.
     
  8. BobRyan

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    It is pretty hard to make the case that the Gospel does not apply to people after the cross.
     
  9. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    Good way of putting an interesting point! But the Millennium Jew may not be a part of the Gospel after they see Him. It may require belief before seeing Him to be part of the Gospel, which might be what Jesus alluded to in John 20:29.

    Don't forget, prior to the Cross, many were saved believing in God, "Ye believe in God (Jhn 14:1). This is a significant difference from the most of rest of the world who have never believed in God, lot along Christ.
     
  10. BobRyan

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    Well the lost are not known for "obedience" to God's Law according to Romans 8:4-9.

    And the righteous do not get that way apart from the gospel.

    True - but they were saved under the "ONE gospel" of Gal 1:6-9 that was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8. for "the Gospel has been preached to us JUST as it was to them also" Heb 4:2
     
  11. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Why the Law?

    Because the LORD GOD in <full Fellowship of the Trinity> in his Eternal Council PURPOSED that the Son of God would become the Revelation of the Mystery of His love and mercy to the lost.

    "The Law came in" according the Plan for Salvation of God at its determined time.
     
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Bob Ryan answered you on this one for sure!
     
  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    In Ezekiel there is no word or concept like 'Jew', 'Jewish' or whatever.

    In Jeremiah to wit, the word 'Jew' appears once; 'Jews', not at all; and "all the Jews" who were in Jeremiah's own day, all slaughtered in Moab, a few times more or less in one place.

    So where is it <<that the Ezekiel and Jeremiah prophecies are referring to the end-time Jewish nation who will not be a part of the body of Christ>>?
     
  14. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    Hi GE - I not sure of what you are trying to share with me when you mention an absence of Jewish reference, but the point is that these prophecies always unavoidably refer solely to Patriarchal descendants and their offspring, e.g. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The intention of
    God's persistence with these, esp. concerning Israel is to confirm His words to the world through His union with Abraham and the lineage of his blood posterity.

    It's my conception that God's confirmation of an unbreakable union with believers is the most important issue concerning His Word to us and our eternal security in Him, and this is well demonstrated in His union with His people whom He first chose to use to reach the world.

    Of course among those whom He has called within the nation of the last Patriarch (Israel), He chose only those whom He knew would be believers to be the soul representation of His people until Christ!

    Blessings to your Family!
     
  15. BobRyan

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    The New Covenant is made with "The House of Israel and the house of Judah" in both OT Jer 31:31-33 and NT - Hebrews 8:6-10.

    The New Covenant is the "ONE Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9 "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8.

    The New Covenant includes the promise "I will write My LAW on their mind and on their heart".

    Even section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and also R.C. Sproul's series on God's people and the LAW - admit to the Bible fact that the moral law of God - that includes the Ten Commandments - applies to the saints in all ages.

    Eph 6:2 says that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST Commandment with a promise" -- first "where"???

    What unit of LAW still valid for Christians in the NT - contains the 5th Commandment as the "first commandment with a promise"?

    It is not the first one in the NT with a promise.

    It is not the first one in the OT with a promise.

    It is only the first one in the TEN with a promise.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    Hi Bob - There are many doctrines in Scripture that are not yet common knowledge but are becoming more so all the time. For instances most do not know that the present and only existing covenant is not between God and man but between God and His Son; the Father would raise Jesus from the dead, providing expiation for man (Heb 13:20).

    Another point of interest is that the above prophecy has yet to occur, which involves the Spirit of God being put within at least most of those of the nation Israel (Rom 11:26), among a few other other occurrences mentioned in the prophecy still yet to occur.

    I've found it most advantageous to continue using Bible commentators in studies, esp. concerning Israel's eschatological doctrines, with which even the best and most popular biblical teachers have difficulties being truly accurate and consistent with Scripture without "spiritualizing." Even some Bible commentators have the same difficulties but most of them are in agreement concerning all biblical doctrine.

    Yes, the great Messianic promise, "In thee shall," etc. (Gen. 12:3), e.g. Christ through Jacob's (last patriarch) lineage, which was also a "like figure" (type; shadow) portrayed in Abraham's attempted sacrifice of his first born, which means his only son.

    The Law and the Gospel are separate systems, in which the law could only instruct towards the Gospel (Gal 3:24). The law cursed and the Gospel redeems from the curse (Gal 3:13). The law could not "justify" because it was "not of faith" (Gal 3:11, 12).

    J Gill: "And the law is not of faith,...."Though the law is not of faith, yet not of man, but of God; the law does not consist of faith in Christ, nor does it require it, but that a man should live by it upon his righteousness; it is the Gospel that reveals the righteousness of Christ, and directs and encourages men to believe in Him and be saved; nor does the law take any notice of a man's faith; nor has it anything to do with a man as a believer, but as a doer, in the point of justification."

    Why were those who were "of the works of the law are under the curse?" Because, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them” (Gal 3:10).

    "Does not continue" designs the intention of never breaking the Law, i.e. Jam 2:10, which is a hyperbolic expression denoting that no man could keep it perfectly, nor were they expected to but God desired to show only Christ could, due to being sinless.
     
  17. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    Faith "establishes" the Law (Rom 3:31) by showing works (of the Law) are not needed for justification, but "works" (not of the Law but in general) are for manifesting justification. Faith and the Law are separate entities, for "The law is not of faith," but is only of "doing" (Gal 3:12); and justification (to render righteousness - Rom 3:26; 8:33) is never effected by works, for works can only justify (to manifest righteousness - Jam 2:24) faith.

    Notice the two different usages in the words "justification" or "justify." The Greek sense for the first is to render or effect righteousness, as in Christianity, to "impute" righteousness. The latter sense is to manifest ("bear," not produce - John 15:8) righteousness, not effect it.

    Hence the closeness and confusion in the usages between these two passages:

    Romans 3:28: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified (render) by faith without the deeds of the law

    James 2:24: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified (manifest) and not by faith only."

    Greek proof-usages: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1344&t=KJV


    "Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law” (Gal 2:15 NLT).
     
  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Amen, Bob Ryan. And thank you for a post in Bible truth.

    <<First "where"???>> Yes in the Law of Moses so-called. But absolutely in Jesus Christ "The Beginning of the creation of God"!
     
  19. BobRyan

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    The debate is not about how a lost person becomes saved. Your statement addresses that issue of justification - the lost becoming saved.

    But the Bible also addresses the condition of the saved - this is key - the New Covenant "The LAW of God written on the heart and mind"

    In Romans 8:4-9 we see the vast contrast between the lost at war with the Law of God - and the saints at peace with it - because it is written on the heart and mind.

    hence 1 John 5:3-4.
     
  20. NetChaplain

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    Hi BR - I believe the primary confusion concerns the phrase "the law of God," in that many relate it solely to the Pentateuch. The law of God concerning instruction for Christians involves the "principle (law) of God," and is not related to the "law of God" concerning the Pentateuch.

    Instruction concerning the "law of God," or principle of God post-Cross means the will, desire and pleasure of God, which goes beyond the instruction of the law of God pre-Cross.

    It is a progression from one to the other, from commandments of that which is dependent on self's works--to dependence on God's works! The instruction concerning the Old Covenant for Israel was effective only in accordance to Israel's ability to keep God's commandments.

    The instruction concerning the New Covenant is effective only in accordance to Christ's expiation, and the keeping of Christ's commandments are performed not by self but by the Spirit through self (new self, not old self), which justifies (displays or shows righteousness, not renders righteousness) the manifestation of God within.

    The commandments of Christ, which are summed up in loving others as Christ loves us (as opposed to loving as we love our self), are obeyed "through the Spirit" (1Pet 1:22), not through self.

    Note: The phrase "through the Spirit" is omitted in translations derived from the spurious manuscripts of the Gnostic's, which phrase is highly significant, considering that all things not done through the Spirit are natural, not spiritual.
     
    #20 NetChaplain, Jun 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016

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