Why the Old Covenant has Passed away ???

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by dan p, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. dan p

    dan p
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    Hi to all , and there are many believers who say that the Law of Moses or the 10 commandments are still in force today .

    Why did Jesus come to die ?

    Yes , He died for all of man's sins .

    Let us all look at what also His death did ?

    In Heb 8:15 , we see and other thing that His death accomplished .

    #1 , a New Covenant to be given to Israel , verse 15 .

    #2 , That by means of death , for the Redemption of the TRANSGRESSION/ SINS that were UNDER THE FIRST COVENANT which means the OLD TESTAMENT .

    # , This means that all SINS for all the HUMAN RACE have been taken and PAID FOR , Jews and Gentiles .
     
  2. rstrats

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    dan p,

    re: "He [the Messiah] died for all of man's sins ... This means that all SINS for all the HUMAN RACE have been taken and PAID FOR , Jews and Gentiles . "

    Actually, - unless you’re advocating universalism - the only sins that have been taken and paid for are those of folks who meet certain requirements.
     
  3. billwald

    billwald
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    It didn't pass away. It never applied to gentiles. It still applies to Jews.
     
  4. dan p

    dan p
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    Are you kidding ??

    I already have and OP , on why Universal Reconciliation is wrong , and Christ died FOR all and TASTED death for ALL , but not all will believe .
     
  5. dan p

    dan p
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    verse please ?

    Where is a verse ??
     
  6. rstrats

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    dan p,

    re: "...all SINS for all the HUMAN RACE have been taken and PAID FOR..."

    re: "...but not all will believe."
     

    Have the sins of those who don’t believe been taken away?
     
  7. BobRyan

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    The only people under the New Covenant of Heb 8 and Jer 31 are the saved saints. Both NT and OT. (Turns out there has only been one Gospel in all of time - from Adam to today)

    Everyone else is under the Old Covenant (of Gal 3 and 2Cor 3) - both NT and OT.

    However the Old Covenant is also a lable given to the Nation-Church worship system setup at Sinai in Heb 9 and in a few other places.

    So "context" is everything when you speak of this concept.

    1John 2:2 Christ at the cross provided the "atoning sacrifice for our sin and not for our sins only but for the sins of the Whole World".

    Howevr God's Lev 16 concept of "atonement" embraces not only the sacrifice of the sin offerring (the atoning sacrifice) but also the high priest's ministry in the sanctuary.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #7 BobRyan, Jul 14, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2010
  8. dan p

    dan p
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    Are they paid for ???

    Hi rstrats , He tasted death for all , so He paid for sins past , present and future , and we see in the Rev 16:11 and will not repent , and in Eph 2:8 , not all will receive the gift of God .
     
  9. Ruiz

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    Which part of the 10 commmandments have passed away?

    The first: Now we can have other gods before God.
    The Second: We can now worship graven images
    The Third: We can now take the name of the Lord thy God in vain?
    The Fourth: We no longer have to rest one day a week to spend in glorious worship of God
    The Fifth: We do not have to honor our father and mother.
    The Sixth: We do not have to worry about murder.
    The Seventh: We do not have to keep our marriage covenant
    The Eighth: We can steal
    The Ninth: We can lie about our neighbors
    The Tenth: We can covet.

    No, I am not antinomian, I do hold to that the law was fulfilled through Christ, not abolished (Matthew 5:17). Thus, I do believe the 10 commandments are in force, for all people. Jews, Gentiles, believers, and will be used to judge non-believers. Now, are there aspects of the Law which are not applicable? Yes, they saw their fulfillment in Christ. Are the 10 commandments a part of that? No!
     
  10. dan p

    dan p
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    Not under a Covenant ?

    Hi , and can you show a verse that says that Gentiles were under the SAME Covenant with Israel ????
     
  11. billwald

    billwald
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    >> It didn't pass away. It never applied to gentiles. It still applies to Jews.

    >Where is a verse ??

    Most of exodus thru Deut. How many times do we read "forever," "for all time." Since when does "forever" mean "until Jesus is resurrected?"

    The Noahic Covenant applies to every human person. The Mosaic Covenant applies to all who came out of Egypt with Moses.
     
  12. Ruiz

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    God's jurisdiction does not end with the nation of Israel. The 10 commandments, the moral law, is applicable to Gentiles today and will be what God uses to judge both believers and non-believers.

    While we are under a "New Covenant" (Jeremiah 31:31; Hebrews 8), that New Covenant is distinct in that it governs the same people, "Israel." Hebrews 8 is a great chapter that recounts the nature of the old and new. We learn:

    1. The Old was a shadow of the New and a copy and shadow of Heaven (v. 5).

    2. The superiority of the New is rooted in Christ's Priesthood role and promises (v. 6).

    3. The New Covenant is made with Israel (Spiritual) but distinct from Sinai (v. 9)

    4. God's "Laws", not a new set of them but his overall laws, would be put in their mind and heart. Serving God is directly related to God's laws (v. 10 but also v. 9 inferring this is how they did not continue in God's law).

    5. The First Covenant is obsolete, but God did not do away with the law (Matthew 5:17).

    The Law is not bad. The problem with talk about the law is that the law is used in a variety of ways. One use is a moral aspect of the law (Romans 2:14-15) in which people are judged in accordance and is written on their hearts (as seen in Hebrews 8 and Jeremiah 31 with the law being written on their hearts).

    The second law is used as the Mosaic Law that was given as a Covenant to Israel.

    The third use of the law is how a Christian should function as a believer, but the law does not function as a Covenant. Thus, it is considered as a righteous behavior but not one that we are made righteous.

    Thus, the law's three uses are important to remember. We are driven to Jesus by the Old Testament Law, the Law was fulfilled in and by Christ, but the Law also gives us a base of morality (thou shalt not kill, do not take the name of the Lord thy God in Vain, etc).

    To drive people to Christ, all people see God's righteous standard and realize that by God's standards, they deserve eternal punishment. Thus, they should be driven to Jesus by the Law. Thus, they were not completely done away, but they were fulfilled, written on our hearts, and draw us to God.
     

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