Why we worship the way we do?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Jun 22, 2007.

  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    Do you believe in the normative principle of worship?
    That is that element of wotship not specifically condemned in the bible is ok.

    Or:

    Do you believe in the regulative principle of worship?
    That is that only elements of public worship authorized in the Bible are proper?

    I you are totally new to this idea, here is a good thing to listen to.

     
  2. Dale-c

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    By the way, one important distinction is elements vs circumstances.

    The color of your walls are circumstances and make no difference for this discussion.
    The number of restrooms are circumstances and make no difference for this discussion.
    What time you meet for services are circumstances and make no difference for this discussion.
    What particular instruments used for the music are circumstances and make no difference for this discussion.
     
  3. pinoybaptist

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    I'm Old School Primitive Baptist, so I guess I go for the second one, that is, only the manner of worship as may be discerned from the Bible.

    No Sunday School, no musical instruments, no special numbers, just plain congregational singing, praying, and preaching.
     
  4. Scarlett O.

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    What are those "only" and "proper" elements of public worship "authorized" in the Bible? :saint:

    I'd be quite interested to see that list.....book, chapter, and verse. :saint:
     
  5. rbell

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    Most people would agree with this list...but there are many who would say your last item is different than the others. They would argue that instruments do make a difference (some PB would do that, most Church of Christ would).

    Not me...heck, I've used bagpipes, electric guitar, sitar, a hurdy-gurdy, and a pipe organ in a worship service. But I'm weird like that.

    Anyway, carry on.
     
  6. av1611jim

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    1. Why did you post this "discussion" link? It is Presbyterian. This is a forum for Baptists only. Got a link for Reformed Baptist discussions of this subject?

    2. I don't really think there are ANY churches today which worship in a way which is even remotely similar to the way they worshipped in Bible times.

    3. I think I missed your point. What is it you are trying to accomplish with this discussion?
     
  7. Dale-c

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    Did you actually listen to any of it?
    They state right up front that it is not a discussion only for their denomination but for all reformed churches which includes reformed baptists.

    This discussion is from a baptist point of view of course but that link doesn't get into any of the differences between Baptists and presbyterians and is thus very helpful.
     
  8. Dale-c

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    That is not the point of this discussion.
    The point is, are we limited to what God has specifically ordained or are we allowed to use a circus to bring people to church since that is not condemned in the Bible.


    Within both sides there will be disagreement.

    I for one believe in the regulative principle but I don't believe that musical instruments are wrong.
    I do believe that special, solo music is.
     
  9. Dale-c

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    This is all too true and why we need to reconsider how we worship.

    The point is, do we use only which is positivly ordained in the Bible, or can we use ANYHING not condemned in the bible.
    Does that make sense?

    Please do not make this into a musical vs non musical instrument thread as that is not the point.


    The point is, are we allowed to be creative in theway that we worship publicly?

    This is not at all about private worship, just corporate worship on Sunday.
     
  10. rbell

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    This is where things get off track...see what I emboldened above. No one would suggest this. That kind of analogy causes the lines to be drawn, and no fruitful discussion takes place...

    And I find no condemnation of "special, solo" music in Scripture. What leads you to believe it is wrong? (I always get tickled at that moniker. Shouldn't all worship be "special?")
     
  11. Dale-c

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    Umm, actually I know of an independent baptist church in Indiana that actually DID have a circus one sunday.
    It does happen.

    And THIS is the whole point of this thread. ANd this is a serious thread I am not meaning to be lighthearted in this one.

    You don't see any prohibition, neither do I.

    But I don't see any authorization and neither do you.

    So it comes down to which way should we approach this?

    Please listen to the audio files, they are really helpful.
     
  12. TCGreek

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    When you say Bible, are you only talking about the NT or both Testaments?

    At Spurgeon's church they did not use instruments. He thought it was an abomination to the Lord.

    But I would settle for a modify normative principle. Let me explain: When we come to the NT, Jesus specifically says that worship would not be confine to a geographical locale, but those who worship God must do so "in spirit and in truth."

    So given the nature that the new worship is more focus on the inner condition of the heart over the external forms, the NT is not specific about a pattern of worship. With that in mind, because of the nature of the Great Commission, wherever you are, in whatever culture, as you come to know the true God, in your cultural forms, you must worship God in spirit and in truth.
     
  13. Dale-c

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    Anything that is applicable to the Church today so mostly the NT but the OT to where it is applicable.

    He would say there was not authorization for it.
    I believe there is but I agree with Spurgeon in principle though.

    You also have to make a distinction between corporate and private worship.
    I believe a lot more freedom is given to private worship.
     
  14. TCGreek

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    Does the NT makes such distinction between what is private worship and what is corporate worship? Do you have any Scripture for that position?
     
  15. Dale-c

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    When the a local body of believers meets on Sunday morning is public, corporate worship.
    If that same group wants to meet on Monday evening to play softball, that is fine. They can even glorify God in their games but that is different than Sunday public worship.
     
  16. Dale-c

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    I might add that a wednesday night prayer meeting also could come under private worship since that is an extra Biblical service. It is not wrong but neither is it required.
     
  17. TCGreek

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    All I am asking for is a simple Scripture or two, not your reasoning. I believe you would agree that Scripture is the final authority.
     
  18. Dale-c

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    I don't know of a proof text that makes the distinction as such but I think it is obvious that in the entire body of scripture there is a time to assemble together as believers. You do agree with this don't you?
     
  19. av1611jim

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    No. I do not think we are allowed to get "creative" in the way we worship. That was Cain's problem. His "creativity" got him into all sorts of trouble; AND it was not accepted by God.

    We must always keep in mind that there is a way which is acceptable to God and a way which is not. One brings blessings from Him and the other brings chastisement. One is a sweet savour to Him and the other stinks in His nostrils.

    I think what WE call worship is NOT truly worship. It is more properly and biblically classified as praise.

    Should one truly wish to know what God seeks in our worship of Him, they ought to just get their concordance out and runs the wheels off every reference to worship. They would then come away with an accurate picture of what biblically defined worship looks like.

    Worship is NOT a grey area with God. He takes this subject and activity VERY seriously. Remember; the book of Genesis is called the book of Beginnings for a very good reason. ALL doctrine begins there. And worship is no exception.
     
  20. Dale-c

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    Thank you Jim, that is the exact purpose of this thread.
     

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