Why Women Are Not To Speak In Church

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Hark, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. Hark

    Hark
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    Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

    It has everything to do with the curse. She was told that her husband shall rule over her, and Adam was cursed for listening to the woman.

    Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

    As if what had happened at the Garden of Eden wasn't enough for mankind to learn from, a reminder has been given to the saints in the New Testament on why the word of God would first come to men in having the responsibility to tell others.

    1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

    1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. 39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

    There's more.

    1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

    Ephesians 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

    There is a prophecy on what "may" happen when you allow a woman to teach in church.

    Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28 And I will give him the morning star. 29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

    Out of all that. I see that the Holy Spirit will never manifest tongues in women in church because of God's commandment for women not to speak in church as the word of the Lord will come first to men in worship, because they are responsible to give the word in church and to the women at home if they have more questions to understand the word given.

    So it kind of makes you discern about all those women speaking in tongues in church when Jezebel was identified with knowing the utter depths of Satan for which they speak at Thyatira.... hence tongues that comes with no interpretation.

    Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

    1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    There are verses that testify to God using women in missionary outreach from their homes or abroad, but it is clear that God wants the order of men leading in the church with His word.

    And women complain enough about the men taking a backseat to everything. They should use thee verses for the women to get out of doing things in church that is really up to the men to be doing.

    1 Timothy 3:1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;.....4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) ...........12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

    Women should not be elders nor deacons in church either.

    So has any church, let alone a Baptist church, has kept to this commandment of the Lord or not?

    I know my former Presbyterian church didn't in regards to elders and deacons and teachers in Sunday schools, and still don't.

    Paul did say that if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant ( Luke 14:37-38 ). I reckon that should apply to a whole church too. I know I was ignorant.

    It does make you wonder if the church is really doing its job if they cannot get enough men to be deacons and elders. Maybe they should reconsider the term limit since it is not Biblical if they wish to please the Lord in being a Biblically based church.
     
  2. Jerome

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    Institutes 4:10:29-30 clarifies that things like Paul's prohibition of women teaching in the church

    "ought to be applied to the edification of the Church, with a variety suitable to the manners of each age and nation, therefore, as the benefit of the Church shall require, it will be right to change and abolish former regulations, and to institute new ones"

    and that

    "these are not fixed and perpetual laws by which we are bound, but external aids for human infirmity, which though we do not need, yet we all use, because we are under obligations to each other to cherish mutual charity between us. This may be observed in the examples already mentioned. What! does religion consist in a woman's veil, so that it would be criminal for her to walk out with her face uncovered? Is the solemn decree respecting her silence such as cannot be violated without a capital offence?"
     
  3. plain_n_simple

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    Paul diffuses the whole thing for you in "But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.".
     
  4. JonC

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    I have to admit that I never quite understood where the Church was given that authority. It almost seems that once we choose what is applicable and discard what is not that we walk away with less Scripture and more autobiography.
     
  5. vooks

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    @Hark,

    Ever read this verse?
    1 Corinthians 11:5 (ESV)
    5 but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven
    .

    1. Should women cover their heads whenever they pray or prophesy?
    2. How come women can exercise the highest of all spiritual gifts, prophecy?
     
  6. Hark

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    Try not to null and void everything else Paul has said by taking that verse out of context.

    That is about praying and praying does not always happen in church.

    Men are supposed to have their head uncovered whenever they pray.

    Women can pray in silence in church as long as their heads are covered, but outside of church where God can use them in the mission field, their heads are supposed to be covered when ministering to others as well as whenever praying.

    Paul explains why this is.

    1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. ....
    13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
    14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
    15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.


    So when in witnessing, the woman's hair is her glory that needs to be covered if they expect to decrease so that Christ may increase.


    John the Baptist, whom was a man, saw the necessity for him to decrease so that He may increase by speaking less of himself and more of Him.

    John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

    So when prophesying in missionary outreach, a woman should have her head covered to decrease in the sight of men so that He may increase when she is speaking of Him.

    Just because a woman can be used by the Lord in the missionary field does not null and void His commandment for women not to speak in church. So either read that verse in context or break His commandment by having women speak in church.

    Paul said this about the men being uncovered and the women covered that if any man has contentions about that...

    1 Corinthians 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

    Paul was saying that there is no such custom, AND neither the churches of God about a woman being uncovered when praying or prophesying.

    I don't always pray or give thanks with my head uncovered. I sometimes leave my hat or stocking cap on. I am sure God will give grace when I am in a dire strait and I am praying "God help me.." but that is different from normal praying, but I reckon I better get back into that as a habit.

    I rely on the Lord to help me do that in not being lazy in having my head uncovered before I pray.
     
  7. Hark

    Hark
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    I do not think Paul was talking about wearing a veil over her face, but having a covering for her hair when she prays or prophesy. It is not her face that is her glory of men. It is her hair.

    1 Corinthians 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man......13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. 16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

    it is obvious that over time, women had stopped covering her hair when praying anywhere, and when women started speaking in church, we may never know but Paul said in verse 16 above, it was never a custom in the world for women to pray uncovered let alone in the churches either.

    Does make one wonder why the priests and the Pope wear that cap on their heads wherever they go, even while praying, thus breaking the custom Paul taught for the men to have their heads uncovered when praying.
     
  8. Hark

    Hark
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    After having known that this is a commandment from the Lord, how can any one be ignorant after that?

    I believe Paul is saying that if any one that knows better that comes across someone that was ignorant of the Lord's commandment and continues to disregard it, because they don't believe it, then let him be ignorant.

    But it is amazing how tongue speakers will select verses they like out of 1 Corinthians 14th chapter and ignore the rest towards the end of the chapter as a line of discernment that God would never manifest tongues in women in churches... and so either they are faking the tongues just as someone else is faking interpreting that tongue when it is just babbling nonsense or that supernatural tongue is not of Him since it comes with no interpretation and God would not manifest His gift of tongues in women in church in breaking His commandment to not speak in church.
     
  9. Hark

    Hark
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    Kind of like becoming a disciple of something else like a church rather than a disciple of Jesus Christ.
     
  10. vooks

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    I'm still waiting for an answer to my question. Can I repeat it?
     
  11. vooks

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    When are you going to whine over women who never cover their heads is the question.

    Should they attend fellowship uncovered and then cover as they pray/prophesy or should they attend fellowship covered throughout?
     
  12. Hark

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    Sure. Go ahead. Leave all that other stuff out so I can see it. Just ask that one question and post nothing else.
     
  13. Hark

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    When in church, their hair should be covered when praying silently and when they are ministering out in the missionary field, they should have their hair covered when prophesying and for praying in submission to the Lord.

    The point about women speaking in tongues, since it is a commandment from the Lord for women not to speak in church, then the Holy Spirit is not the One manifesting tongues in the women in church.
     

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