Will Cloned Humans Have Souls?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by AVL1984, Nov 26, 2002.

  1. AVL1984

    AVL1984
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    This question was raised to me the other day. I have done some research, but not come to an opinion yet. Will cloned human beings have souls? If so, why? If no, why not? What are the spiritual, ethical and moral implications of cloning? I asked this question on another forum, but all I've gotten are unintelligent answers and drivel. I know that I can count on the Baptist Boarders to give me some straightforward answers. Thanks in advance.

    AJL [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. Jim1999

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    A very good question.

    Is the soul created at birth? Is the soul passed on by the birth parents?

    I guess to answer the cloning question, one must first answer the question about the origin of the soul.

    To assist in the thought process, there are three views commonly presented by theologians:

    I quote from A.H. Strong:

    1. The theory of preexistence

    2. The creation theory (general Calvinist viewpoint)

    3. The traducian theory...propagated by man, body and soul, by natural generation

    Cheers,

    Jim

    [ November 26, 2002, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Jim1999 ]
     
  3. Johnv

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    Not a clue. Which leads me to a question. How do we know we have souls?
     
  4. LadyEagle

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    Did you mean spirit or soul?

    Spirit, meaning capacity of God consciousness?

    Or soul, meaning capacity of consciousness of self & others?
     
  5. stubbornkelly

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    I can't pretend to know. But I can't see why they wouldn't, offhand. It's a biological process, right? As is IVF, GIFT, and "natural" conception.
     
  6. Baptist Believer

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    People *are* souls. People also have spirits.

    The three-part nature of man (body, soul, spirit) owes more to Platonic thought than the Bible.

    Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart."
     
  7. Jim1999

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    theologians, based on scripture, differ as to whether man is comprised of body, soul and spirit, or just body and soul/spirit.....There are equal arguments on either side.

    Again, the origin of the soul, please.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. Johnv

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    Okay, I've given this some thioght. Considering that identical twins are clones of each other, I'd have to say, yes, a cloned human being would have a soul.

    If the issue is the artificial method of creating the egg, then we'd have to conclude that people who are the result of IFV also have no souls, which I don't thin kis the case.
     
  9. RaptureReady

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    Here is your origin.

    Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    On a personal note, I don't think human cloning will ever happen, but if it does, it won't be from God. We need to stop trying to be Gods and be servants of God.
     
  10. Helen

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    A few notes:

    1. Human cloning has already happened and been killed at an early point.

    2. God is in charge of life, cloned or not. Humans have souls. And spirits.

    3. The three times 'bara' is used in Genesis appear to be the three different creation ex nihilos, the physical, the soul, and the spirit. Since complex animals also have nephesh, which is translated 'breath of life' as well as 'soul', and since we are created in the image of God and they aren't, soul and spirit are definitely different.
     
  11. C.S. Murphy

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    Because the Bible says so Gen 2:7. Is this answer sufficent?

    Murph
     
  12. Johnv

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    Because the Bible says so Gen 2:7. Is this answer sufficent?

    Murph
    </font>[/QUOTE]Not quite what I was getting at. How do know, deep within ourselves, tha we have a soul? DO we know simply because we were told, or because we acknowlege its presence?
     
  13. Ulsterman

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    "Do we know simply because we were told, or because we acknowlege its presence?"

    It is my understanding that the soul is the seat of our emotion, therefore everytime we laugh, cry, rage, feel envy, fear, love etc we sense the presence of our soul. One cannot be human without a soul, therefore cloned humans must have souls.
     
  14. Paul of Eugene

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    Deep within the seat of myself I directly sense an ongoing awareness and conciousness that I am more than mere moving molecules. I consider this awareness a manifestation of my soul, by definition. That does not mean I understand all that a soul is.
     
  15. post-it

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    The same question was asked when the first test-tube babies where made.

    I even remember some Einstein fanatic claiming that the Antichrist would stem from one of these soul-less babies.

    Why is it that these Biblical Geniuses always get all the press? :rolleyes:
     
  16. Ben W

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    Scientists can tell you that when a sperm meets an egg, conception takes place. They cannot tell you how it happens it just does.

    When cells are introduced to an egg it would appear likely that conception can take place. They know that it happens but not how it happens. It is a complete mystery.

    God says He knew you in the womb. Man can try a variety of ways to make conception occur. Only God can give life.
     
  17. wjrighter

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    my girlfriend & i discussed this, her job @the
    experiment station is in the field of microbiology
    mice, monkees & such; she told me about DNA, &
    the building blocks which scientist can copy.
    note i said copy ;according to her all they can
    do is make copies w/ man made chemicals ?
    i'm guessing we can't get same materials God
    used in making us ? anyway i heard that dolly the
    cloned sheep is aging faster than she's supposed
    to,just wondering if all this connected somehow ?
    personally i think only God can create life.
    have a funny feeling something will go wrong,have
    a soul ? only God knows
     
  18. BrianT

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    I think it's VERY important that Christians agree that clones have souls. If human cloning starts to happen in larger quantities, if the church is wishy-washy on this issue, then major ethical problems could arise because then killing a clone might not be considered "murder", etc.
     
  19. Jim1999

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    Yes, Brian, it links into the abortion issue, doesn't it?

    One of the reasons I called for a definition on the origin of the soul.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  20. Johnv

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    Scientists can tell you that when a sperm meets an egg, conception takes place. They cannot tell you how it happens it just does.

    When cells are introduced to an egg it would appear likely that conception can take place. They know that it happens but not how it happens. It is a complete mystery.


    Huh? Don't you watch the learning channel???

    The sperm is attracted to the egg because of chemicals that the mature egg releases. Once an egg is fertilized, the chemical composition of the egg changes, and the remaining sperm are no longer drawn to the egg case. Also, the appearance of a sperm inside the egg causes the care of the egg to harden and become impervious to any more entering sperm.
     

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