Will Gd regenerate Those Who Never heard Gospel/Placed faith In Jesus?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, May 25, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Will God regenerate His elect, chosen before foundation of World, even IF they never heard the Gospel/placed faith in Christ?

    If yopu hold that he indeed does that today

    Why even necessity to Evangelize?
     
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,559
    Likes Received:
    274
    JF, think about this; imagine your life without ever have coming to the glorious truths of the gospel. Literally, believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ is the best thing that has EVER happened to me. It has given me more joy and fulfillment than anything else in this world; and, it has SAVED me from great error over and over again many times. Preaching the gospel is necessary in order to bring the elect into the kingdom, which is our [timely] salvation. You don't see the [great] worth in that?

    The Spirit goes wherever He wills. The consistent order given in the scripture is the spiritual birth first, then conversion.


    Observe:

    But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God. Jn3:21

    God has wrought in these prior to them 'coming to the light'. That's why they come to the light, because God has wrought. It's the spiritual birth first, then conversion.


    Another (there's several once you acquire an eye for it):

    Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Jn 1:47

    An Israelite indeed Christ called him, and that before Nathanael had ever met Christ. Romans 2:29:

    'but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.'

    “Whose praise is not of men, but of God”. Christ praised Nathanael, “Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!”. It's the spiritual birth first, then conversion.


    Another:

    Christ commissioning the Twelve and sending them forth (Mt 10, Lk 10), He instructs them to go to the lost sheep (not goats) (as in Ezek 34), and search for those worthy, and for those sons of peace:

    “...whatsoever city or village ye shall enter, search out who in it is worthy...”

    “....if a son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon him....”

    They were 'worthy sons of peace' prior to hearing and believing the gospel. It's the spiritual birth first, then conversion.


    Another:

    “He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;......” Jn 3:36
    “.....He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life,...” Jn5:24
    “... He that believeth hath eternal life.” Jn 6:47

    Those that believe have already been born from above and have eternal life. It's the spiritual birth first, then conversion.


    Another:

    ....Cornelius...a devout man...that feared God...who gave much...and prayed... Acts 10:1,2

    And that before Peter had ever preached the gospel to Cornelius. It's the spiritual birth first, then conversion.


    Another:

    for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves; in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2:13-15

    Not 'the hearers' of the law, but 'the doers' of the law are just before God.

    Ro 13:10:
    “Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law”

    Charitable Cornelius showed the work of the law written in his heart, as I'm certain multitudes of Gentiles that had not the law had done down through the ages before him. The Spirit blows where it wills.
     
    #2 kyredneck, May 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2011
  3. Allan

    Allan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, and thus the need to evangelize.
     
  4. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    0
    The gospel of John informs us clearly that Christ gives "Light" (spiritual revelation) to every person who comes into this world. And the principle is found elsewhere in the scriptures as well.

    There is no-one who "hasnt heard"

    Those who live their entire life without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ will be judged according to their response to the "Light" that they DID receive.

    If they heeded the light (revelation) acceptably, they will be saved

    If they refused it, they will be lost.
     
  5. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    kyr:

    I agree.

    Yes indeed, Christ seen that Nathanael was one who had not had his sins imputed to him as Per Ps 32:

    1Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

    2Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

    In other words, non imputation of iniquity and the no guile go hand and hand.

    Also, the no guile is indicative of having the imputed righteousness of Christ laid to ones Charge, for its said of His perfect active obedience this 1 Pet 2:

    21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

    22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
     
  6. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    alive:

    Thats error, thats Talking about all His seed, men and women of different ethnic groups whom He regenrates by His Spirit. All men without exception dont receive spiritual light.

    This applies strictly to those whose Life [spiritual] were already in Him from Election. Jn 1:4

    4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    Thats who receives the Light in vs 9, they had seed life already in Him..
     
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,559
    Likes Received:
    274
    I agree! Good post.
     
  8. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    So will there be people who are regenerated by the Holy Spirit who never heard of jesus/placed personal faith in Him?
     
  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,559
    Likes Received:
    274
    Were there Gentiles of the OT era, who never had the law and who had never heard the law, that had the law written in their hearts?
     
    #9 kyredneck, May 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2011
  10. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    One of the primary purposes for the new birth was for the elect to be hearing the Gospel of their salvation, not for the removal of the penalty of sin, Christ blood accomplished that before many of the elect were ever born. I personally believe all who have had their sins forgiven will experience the newbirth, even if an elect infant dies at childbirth, and God is able to communicate the Gospel to any of His elect at anytime at any age. I dont believe however its ever after death.

    Now to answer your question even more precisely, if any are born again now and living upon the earth, they shall hear the Gospel of their salvation.
     
  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    So that there are BOTH inward/outword working by God..

    Holy Spirit does His inward working on heart/mid of one of the elect, but they still must/will place personal faith in jesus christ after hearing the Gospel message!
     
  12. asterisktom

    asterisktom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    2,293
    Likes Received:
    21
    I believe that you are referring to John 1:9, but in an unwarranted interpretation. The NKJV has this:

    9. That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
    10. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
    11. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.


    The RSV is one of several that has a better rendition for this verse 9:
    "The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world."


    Matthew 4:16 also comes to mind:
    "The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light,
    And upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death light has dawned.”

    The question here is: What, or Who, is coming into the world? You seem to see this as descriptive of birth, as if our births are described as a coming into the world. But John doesn't describe our births that way. He does describe the coming of Messiah in that way. Here is John 3:17-20:

    17. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
    18. “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    19. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.


    We have here the same elements as John's 1st chapter. He is, in fact, returning to the same topic:
    1. Christ comes into the world as light
    2. Men reject the light.

    So the bottom line here is that God does not give everyone light. He gives some much light, some little, some none at all.
     
  13. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    You just know someone going to come back with:

    :HOW could God be loving and just and not give all the same light and chance to believe?"
     
  14. Bro. James

    Bro. James
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,643
    Likes Received:
    15
    Who is saved or not-- and how? These questions are still hotly debated among the hallowed halls of theological academia, also the BBB--among the followers of Calvin and Arminius. Is it possible they are both wrong? What were the soteriological positions before the 16th century?

    We seem to be hopelessly mired in the ditch of higher textual criticism. Jesus said a little child could understand. Now what?

    A cursory look at the good and/or bad works of billions of people in the past several thousand years of recorded history would seem to indicate that one does not get to heaven by works. Millions still seem to believe the contrary. Another unsolicited observation: apparently, a multitude have died, never having heard the Gospel. Where do these people go?

    Ephesians 1 gives us the who, why, and where. Ephesians 2 gives us the how. The Lord saves for His purpose and good pleasure--unto good works which God has before ordained that we should walk in them. Then comes eternity with The One Who created us--not purgatory or beatification.

    Let us give thanks that He knows our free-will is enslaved to our depraved nature--knowing that we know not how to make the right choice, without Him showing The Way.

    Even so, come Lord Jesus.

    Peace,

    Bro. James
     
    #14 Bro. James, May 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2011
  15. asterisktom

    asterisktom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    2,293
    Likes Received:
    21
    And I would come back with: That is a democracy you are describing, not God's universe. Also, there is the scripture that backs up my point. Clearly God does/did give some people more light than others.
     
  16. Allan

    Allan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    0
    Uhh.. no.. Not a democracy, but speaking to very nature of God who is the standard of such attributes, and declares Himself thusly.

    I know of no non-cal or Arminian who would disagree with your above last sentence. What they and scripture disagree with is your previous post statement:
    It is the last section which is not found to be biblical
     
  17. asterisktom

    asterisktom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    2,293
    Likes Received:
    21
    Yes, I would agree with you. I overstated the case. Everyone has the light of nature and of conscience. And yet, the light that all men have is not spoken of in John 1:9. But it is mentioned in Romans 1 and elsewhere.
     
  18. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    0
    Saved by mercy.....

    Concerning all men recieving "light" that they can reject or heed, even those who havent heard the gosple, you said...

    Well, you of course are entitled to your opinion, but Almighty God, in His scriptures, says that they can.

    I'm sure you are a fine person and all, but I'm going to side with God and His scriptures.

    AiC
     
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,381
    Likes Received:
    728
    you hold to this error as strong as Harold Camping holds to his
     
  20. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    0
    Iconoclast...

    Regarding all men recieving Light, as The scripturs clearly promote. you said....


    What a ridiculous thing to say.


    To each His own I guess...

    God bless.
     

Share This Page

Loading...