Will the Lake of Fire Ever Go Out?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by 3AngelsMom, Jan 22, 2003.

  1. 3AngelsMom

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    Do you think that after God has judged all of mankind, and He has cast them all into the lake of fire, that the fire will ever go out?
     
  2. DHK

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    Will the Lake of Fire ever go out?
    No, not if you believe the Bible. (Even if you don't believe the Bible it will still never go out).

    Rev.20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
    DHK
     
  3. neal4christ

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    You assume that the lake of fire is just like fire here on earth now. You also assume that it will simply serve to burn up flesh, but there is that pesky old spirit part of man that is left! It very well could be that the lake of fire has some spiritual torment with it as well.

    Neal
     
  4. MEE

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    Gee DHK, we actually agree on something! ;)

    Question?.......if the saints of God are given a new body, does it state if the lost sinner will be given a new one that will last when cast into the lake of fire?

    Just something to think about!
     
  5. 3AngelsMom

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    Could be, but probably not, since the Spirit goes back to God who gave it when a man dies. Oh, that is the same spirit btw that animates animals as well. Just a thought.
     
  6. neal4christ

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    See, this is where you start having problems. So are animals made in God's image as well as man? What is being made in God's image really mean? I agree that animals have a soul, i.e. life, but they do not have a spirit. See, now you either have to say animals are made in God's image or God is a human in flesh form and we are just an image of that. There is a verse that applies to this as well, John 4:24.

    "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." NKJV

    Neal

    [ January 22, 2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]
     
  7. DHK

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  8. 3AngelsMom

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    Seems? You assume too much.

    You have that backwards. An animal has a body and spirit, but is not A living soul.

    The Spirit that is in man, is the life force given by God. It is what animates us. It is the breath of life.

    The word Spirit in most passages about men is ruawach, lets look at the defonition:

    07307 ruwach {roo'-akh}
    AV - Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4, vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6; 378
    1) wind, breath, mind, spirit 1a) breath 1b) wind 1b1) of heaven 1b2) quarter (of wind), side 1b3) breath of air 1b4) air, gas 1b5) vain, empty thing 1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation) 1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour 1c2) courage 1c3) temper, anger 1c4) impatience, patience 1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented) 1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse 1c7) prophetic spirit 1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals) 1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, 1e1) desire 1e2) sorrow, trouble 1f) spirit 1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts 1f2) rarely of the will 1f3) as seat especially of moral character 1g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son 1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy 1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning 1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power 1g4) as endowing men with various gifts 1g5) as energy of life 1g6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory 1g7) never referred to as a depersonalised force

    Can animals be possessed by demons?

    Since the answer is yes, it must be that they have a place where the demon can go. Just like people.

    No I do not belive in evolution. What does that have to do with this?

    The Spirit of God will not always strive with man. At some point it leaves. When that happens, the person dies. The dust returns to the earth, and the 'ruwach' goes back to God who gave it. It is the 'seat' of emotion and intellect in the human. It is not a ghost that can float around with your personality in it.

    I think you are stretching your perception a little far when you say that I have nothing to live for because I don't think I have a 'ghost' in me. That is what you meant. I know that I have Spirit in me, but I am not immortal, and there is not a ghost inside of me that is immortal, and that can float away at the time of death. That is pagan.

    DO you not believe that you will see Christ in your flesh?
     
  9. DHK

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    First, let me say that my post was not meant to be overly offensive to you, but worded in such a way as to cause you to think. Some of it was sarcastic, I admit.
    A person who is born again has the Holy Spirit residing in them. His spirit is made alive unto Christ. Gal.2:20
    Gal.2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    --Who is really living here—Paul or Christ? When Paul, in his flesh, dies, will he continue to live in his spirit? Absolutely! “To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.”
    Do you also have a “ghost” in you? I hope so, since the word for “ghost” is only the Old English equivalent for “spirit.” We speak of the Holy Ghost, i.e., Holy Spirit. But back to Gal.2:20. Paul said that Christ lives in Him. He will live forever. He will be with the Lord. There is therefore something about Paul that is immortal. It is not his body right away; it is his spirit. However, at the resurrection his body will be reunited with his spirit and will also be immortal like his spirit. Anyone who is saved has an immortal spirit. That spirit just doesn’t float away. It goes straight to Heaven to be forever with the Lord.
    The spirit of the unsaved man goes straight to Hell to suffer the wrath of God forever. Already the wrath of God abides on Him (John 3:17,18,36). His spirit is also immortal in a sense. It will “live” in a state of separation (which is death) forever in the lake of fire, after the final sentence of the Great White Throne Judgement is given, and as verse 10 states: “shall be tormented day and night forever and ever.” How can you twist those words to mean anything else than what they say?

    1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
    DHK
     
  10. 3AngelsMom

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    Thank you for clearing that up.
    I am in complete agreement.
    To someone who dies, that is exactly how it will be, because they will die, and sleep throughout the time it takes for the resurrection. When the resurrection takes place that will be the VERY next conscious thought they have after death.
    I think you know what I meant by 'ghost' being different from 'Spirit' as in God's Spirit. Ghost like on Ghostbusters.
    I think you just added a whole bunch of stuff to that passage that is not there! That passage is about justification by faith in Christ. It doesn't say you will go to heaven right after you die! Did Jesus go to heaven right after He died? NOPE. So we are going to do the same thing He did, sleep in the grave until we are resurrected.
    So now you are saying that the LOST are immortal too? Ok, back up, show SCRIPTURE for that. How can I twist those words? Where have I twisted those words? Are you asking me to twist them? [​IMG] I can put a pretty good spin on them, but I don't know about twisting. [​IMG]
    I am going to assume that means no.
    Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
    Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
    Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

    Sounds like Job thought so.

    God Bless.
     
  11. DHK

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    1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
    DHK
    </font>[/QUOTE]1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    The obvious answer is yes. I will indeed see Christ in the flesh. He is in the flesh right now. There is a resurrection of the dead. I shall be like Him when I receive my resurrection body.
    DHK
     
  12. 3AngelsMom

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    1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
    DHK
    </font>[/QUOTE]1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    The obvious answer is yes. I will indeed see Christ in the flesh. He is in the flesh right now. There is a resurrection of the dead. I shall be like Him when I receive my resurrection body.
    DHK
    </font>[/QUOTE]So then HOW does that work with the idea that you go RIGHT to heaven when you die in the form of a Spirit? 'We will be like Him FOR we will see Him as He is'. Do you not plan to see Jesus when you get there?

    There seems to be a contradiction here.
     
  13. DHK

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  14. BobRyan

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    Neal You assume that the lake of fire is just like fire here on earth now.
     
  15. BobRyan

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    Neal You assume that the lake of fire is just like fire here on earth now.

    Jude tells us that Sodom and Gomorrah are "examples of destruction by Eternal Fire".

    It is fire that comes down out of heaven - from God.

    It is not "normal everyday fire".

    The fire is "not quenched" - that means it consumes the material it is burning without the possibility of being "put out". It does not convey "eternal properties" to that which it burns/destroys/consumes.

    Notice that the wicked are "consumed", "destroyed" etc by that fire.

    Christ states in Matt 10 that "BOTH body AND soul are DESTROYED in Hell fire".

    That event in which "The Smoke of the torment ascends up FOREVER and EVER - is IN the Presence of the Lamb and Of His Saints" Rev 14:10

    How long do you think the saints will be standing on the brink of hell, ringside seats - for all eternity? We are there for it all according to Rev 14 -- and that is true.

    IN Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. 3AngelsMom

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    1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    First, notice that the context of this verse is the rapture which is simultaneous with first resurrection. "When he shall appear," speaks of the rapture, Christ's coming for His own. That is when the believer will receive his glorified body. How will that happen?

    1Thessalonians 4:14-17
    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Verses 14 and 15 speak of those that are asleep, or those whose bodies are dead and buried. In other words we definitely know it is referring here to the body.
    Verses 16 and 17 describe how that body is going to be raised. First the "dead in Christ," then we which are "alive in Christ" will be caught up in the air (raptured) to meet the Lord in the air. We will forever be with the Lord IN THE FLESH.
    DHK
    </font>[/QUOTE]How do you get SO close and still miss it?
    The DEAD in Christ RISE first, NOT descend. This is a very clear passage, that not only 'secret rapture'ists use, and miss the point, but dualists use and miss the point!

    We will NOT prevent those who are asleep. THEY COME UP FIRST.
    The DEAD in Christ RISE first.
    We who are alive are caught up together with Him.

    And not to mention the SHOUT, TRUMPET, and VOICE that make a secret rapture immpossible.

    ONE more thing:

    Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    When is this? When is Jesus referring to? Death? Or the resurrection?

    'I will come' sounds like He is coming to get, who? Say it with me now, YOU!!

    SO THAT WHERE HE IS, YOU MAY BE ALSO!!!

    If you are already in heaven, WHY, oh WHY would He need to come get you? Do you think He needs your decrepid, old, worn, MORTAL, body? If you were already in heaven and He wanted you to have flesh, He could just make you a new one!

    My, oh, my, how the Bible makes sense again.

    God Bless, I will pray for your clarity.
     
  17. DHK

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  18. BobRyan

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    3AngelsMom The DEAD in Christ RISE first, NOT descend. This is a very clear passage, that not only 'secret rapture'ists use, and miss the point, but dualists use and miss the point!

    We will NOT prevent those who are asleep. THEY COME UP FIRST.
    The DEAD in Christ RISE first.
    We who are alive are caught up together with Him.


    Why do you keep pointing us to the actual "details" of God's Word in this case? They do not fit many popular views.

    For example, there are several problems with paying attention to the details in the 1Thess 4 text.

    #1. It does mention the "Dead in Christ". That is an unfortunate term as many would prefer to edit that to "the Alive in Christ".

    #2. As you point out "They RISE first" - that means this is the resurrection of the saints at Christ's return. The resurrection of the righteous. And of course that is a problem since Rev 20 has the "First" resurrection occuring as the even that STARTS the 1000 years. That is a huge problem for many.

    And of course they really should be "descending first" not "Rising first".

    #3. 1Thess 4 ALSO calls the "dead in Christ" -- "Those who have Fallen Asleep" and "Those that ARE asleep" vs 13-14. Again - a very poor choice of words on the part of Paul as it does not fit with the more common view of the dead as "the Alive In Christ".

    So perhaps it would be better in the future not to pay so much attention to what is said IN the specific text of 1Thess4. Isn't there some "other text" we could look at?

    IN Christ,

    Bob

    [ January 23, 2003, 07:47 AM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]
     
  19. 3AngelsMom

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    He could, if He chose to do so. But He didn't and will not according to the Bible. I go by His Word, not yours.
    DHK
    </font>[/QUOTE]That's all well and good but what do you do with what God's Word says?

    1 Thessalonians 4:15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    BY the WORD of the LORD- NOT ME
    SHALL NOT prevent them which are ASLEEP- our 'rapture' will not prevent those asleep
    the DEAD in CHRIST shall RISE first- the DEAD RISE
    to MEET the Lord in the air- If they were already in heaven wouldn't it say 'to go back to the Lord after reentering their bodies?

    hmmm.

    Do you not believe the WORD OF THE LORD?

    [ January 23, 2003, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: 3AngelsMom ]
     
  20. DHK

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    He could, if He chose to do so. But He didn't and will not according to the Bible. I go by His Word, not yours.
    DHK
    </font>[/QUOTE]That's all well and good but what do you do with what God's Word says?
    </font>[/QUOTE]Think of the resurrection in terms of the resurrection of Christ. In fact it would be good to study 1Cor.15, where Paul presents a number of arguments based on the resurrection of Christ, why we also shall rise again.

    When Christ died, where did His spirit go for three days and three nights? Did it just "float around," as you once suggested? Or would it be repulsive or Him to come and meet with that decrepit body of His that had been hanging on the cross, a mangled mess of scarred tissue and bones. Did His body meet His spirit or vice-versa? Did the body ascend to Heaven and meet His spirit there, or the spirit descend from Heaven to earth to meet His body, or did body and spirit meet half way in between? These are the type of questions that you are asking when you say that one must descend before he ascends, at the rapture. They are speculative and somewhat irrelevant. God is able to raise up every saved body that has ever lived and is living at that time. It will be joined with its spirit. I leave the how, the timing, the exact when, etc. in God's hands. I don't understand everything. But I do believe what God says on the matter. Christ is coming again for His own. When He does they will be raptured, caught up, as the Bible says. This is the first resurrection. The second one will involve all unbelievers and will take place just over a thousand years later at the Great White Throne Judgement.
    DHK
     

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