Will there be sinless people in hell?

you don't have anything to worry about because you're one of the elect, remember? (Sarcasm!)

 

Well, precisely because they did not know God they were persecuting Christians, the people of God.

Later Paul says,

"Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith" (2 Thess 3:1-2, emphasis mine).

People are going to be in hell because they never put their faith in Jesus as Savior and Lord.

But I don't have the final word about those who never heard the message of Jesus.

 

Maybe TCGreek or RIPPON can help you understand my point.

 

Ironic you didn't highlight who "them" are...

"But as many as recieved him,..."

 

At any rate, we need to avoid universalism.

In a matter like this, we can only go with the witness of Scripture: It is quite evident to me that the concept of election is firmly rooted in both the Old and New Testaments.

 

Thank you my Brother... :thumbs: :applause:

 

Meaning Israel?

 

Here are the verses under question:

"17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. (Rom 5:17-19, TNIV, emphasis mine).

Is Paul teaching universalism in v. 18? At face value it seems that way.

but

When we read the second part of v. 17 we see that he's not teaching universalism.

Paul does explain himself!

 

I like how verse 18 tells us that one righteous act RESULTED in justification and life for all, not that it WAS justification and righteousness for all. Blows the "L" right off the flower

 

Well, according to the witness of Scripture, even before Israel was formulated, God chose Abram (Jos 24:3; Neh 9:7).

Now we can reason that Israel was in the loins of Abram, but that is more philosophical than Scriptural.

Moreover, even within ethnic Israel God had a remnant (Rom 9:6).

 

So are you claiming to be a universalist?

 

I would appreciate a scriptural rebuttal instead of something out of the dictionary. Maybe Rippon can help?

 

On the contrary, those holding to limited atonement would have to believe that if this verse is used as their proof text.

In Adam = all die
In Christ = all live

 

1. TC, if you disagree, then you must exIplain how those who never hear the gospel will be judged. Seems to me that Christ and the cross are meaningless to someone who has never head of them

2, Yes, God does command all people everywhere to repent. Paul also wrote, how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard? How can they hear without a preacher? (Ro 10:14) It is clear that all have not heard, thus can't know of Christ or his resurrection. Unless you are prepared to argue that everybody everywhere has heard the gospel, or the non-hearers will be saved some other way, then my position makes the most sense.

3. I totally agree.

 

What do you mean by dictionary?

Abram was elect (Neh 9:7)

Israel was elect (Deut 7:7, 8; Isa 45:4)

Jesus was elect (Isa 42:1; 1 Pet 2:6)

Angels (1 Tim 5:21)

Church (2 Tim 2:10)

Now I can only go with the witness of Scripture.

What is meant be all these elections is the heart of the matter.

 

Looks to me v18 says the offer was to all though v17 says all didn't receive God's abundant provision of grace. Faith being the difference between those who received v17 the offer of v18.

 

I've already pointed out that Paul makes himself clear in v. 17, so the burden of proof is on the person of the opposite view.

 

I'm sorry I wasn't helpful.