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Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by RaptureReady, Aug 25, 2003.
Wine as used in the Bible is it fermented, unfermented, or both?
Unfermented essentially didn't exist until Welch started pasteurizing grape juice in the late 1800s.
You mean that the wine wasn't really grape kool-aid ? ? ?
I live in wine country and my parenst were both grape farmers. If grapes were left out as grape juice it would rot quite quickly and mold.
Fermented, it is why Jesus said you cannot put new wine into an old wineskin. A wineskin was a sheeps gut, as the wine ferments it streches, and it only has one streach in it, use it twice and it splits.
hmmmmm I am not real sure but I don't beleive Jesus drank fermented wine or permitted people too.
Amen! For those that believe all mention of wine in the Bible is fermented, please review these passages. De. 11:14; 2 Ch. 31:5; Ne. 13:15; Pr. 3:10; Is. 16:10; 65:8; 1 Ti. 5:23.
Since grape juice easily spoils, it could have easily been at any stage of fermentation.
Just because sometimes it didn't mean fermented, doesn't mean it only meant fermented when it was "forbidden."
For instance: A Nazarite had to abstain from anything made with grapes, whether fermented or not. It specifically said fermented and unfermented wine etc.
The word used for wine here in bold was used in context with "strong drink" and is defined as:
Later in the chapter, after the vow is complete the Bible tells us that he may now drink wine. The same word defined above.
Words have meaning. Wine is one word. Juice is another word. The KJV translators understood the difference between wine and juice (see Songs 8:2). So when the Bible says "wine", that Jesus turned water into "wine" (John 4:46), when Melchizedek gave Moses bread and "wine"(Gen 14), when "wine" brings cheer to both man *and God* (Judges 9:13), that "wine" is a blessing from God (Deut 7:13, etc.), that if we give to God, he will overflow us with bread and "wine" (Prov 3:9-10) - why not just believe it? Why try to change the meaning of simple words just because you don't like what the Word of God says?
Yes, "new wine" can *sometimes* refer to wine that has only begun it's fermentation process, and thus has very little alcholic content. But this term is often used in the context of preserving it *for the purpose of fermenting* (Luke 5:37). "New wine" is not "non-alcoholic juice", it's just not fully fermented: for even "new wine" can intoxicate (Hsa 4:11, Acts 2:13).
For those that abstain for various reasons, fantastic! But you really don't have to disbelieve the Bible and change the meaning of simple words just to try to add support to your position.
God gave wine. Don't abuse it. Simple.
"God gave wine. Don't abuse it. Simple."
That's the problem. People don't like a simple answer. They have to complicate it with all kinds of twists and turns, because they're not satisfied with simplicity.
As part of my weight loss/diet and exercise regimen, I have taken to drinking one cup (measured) of red wine every day, with my doctor's approval.
I have found this to have really improved my health, for I no longer have the indigestion that I had, and I am also having better, um, "movements" too. I also have ceased having pains in my chest and stomach.
I have come to believe that Paul was right indeed when he recommended to Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach, for indeed I have found it to have really helped my overall health. Though wine alone hasn't done this, it has found a place in my overall work at regaining my health.
Strong's Concordance shows two types of "wine" that is used in the Bible. #03196 which is fermented and #08492 which is unfermented.
Strong's is not the "final authority". Which do you believe, the KJV or Strongs?
Both are fermented. New wine is just much less so. It can still intoxicate.
Hsa 4:11 Whoredom and wine 03196 and new wine 08492 take away the heart.
Ha, ha--they are full of new wine!
Doctors have been advocating a glass of red wine for years for your heart. But now it is coming out the red wine makes you live longer. The article was on yahoo yesterday but I already can't find it. Anyway, the article made it sound like red grapes did the same thing for you so it doesn't really bolster that position. I frankly think red wine (like all wine) tastes disgusting so I guess I won't be extending my life any time soon. That is okay, I am kind of excited and in a hurry to get to heaven anyway.
I'm sorry, I just can't find the article.
Here's an article that probably is very similar to what you saw, only this one is on CBC (a Canadian site):
Here's a thought: maybe God knew the medicinal benefits of wine, and thus that's why the Israelites were allowed to drink it - sort of like how some people say one of the reasons God forbid pork was because of the potential medical problems of preserving and preparing it in ancient Israel.
Pork isn't that good for you knowadays either. But I don't like to tie such reasons to God reason for aspects of the Law. I have a hard time trying figure out why He would forbid two types of fabric in one piece of clothling.