Women In Authority

Recovering Biblical manhood and womanhood ed piper/grudem is both the most exhaustive and conerstone book of the current published works dealing with this issue.

 

The verse seems pretty simple and straightforward, doesn't it? But check out any of the threads on this or other topics and you'll see people don't agree with the plain meaning of the verse. There are a variety of reasons people will not take it at face value, and maybe some of them are valid, I don't know. I'd state my opinion of the verse, but my wife hasn't told me what it is, yet. Just kidding - I'm a single dad, dateless for years.

 

MMetts

Are you the Michael that has been commenting in that thread? I have enjoyed the give and take - Emily seems to be one sharp lady, she has impressed me greatly. I think she has the makings of a fine seminary professor if that is where the Lord leads her. Unfortunately for the SBC it will be in a place like Baylor, Logsden or Carroll

 

Process theology seems to try and make the Bible say what is right to the one processing. Reading over that thread was exhausting (sbcoutpost) but that was my conclusion.

It saddens me that teh result of such an exhaustive study would mean I, as a simpleton with no greek abilities (other than a laptop and a concordance) could never "fully understand" the mysteries of God and truth of his word. To this I say, hogwash.

 

This has been debated and debated here, if you want to rehash do a search. People have different opinions about the role of women in the church that doesn't make them more saved or less saved just different.

BTW, most folks don't take the Bible literally, proof of this is found in all the two eyed, two handed folks still attending church.

Your child chooses a lifestyle hostile to church and faith. Somehow a pastor is able to reach out to them and minister to their needs and eventually they come to accept Jesus Christ. Do you care if that pastor is a woman?

 

Fallacious thinking at best. Because God uses erring humans...in spite or the erring ways...to bring the gospel to someone does NOT validate their errors! God uses you, me and everyone else who fails the biblical mandates in front of us, that does not justify our failures it only validates that God is gracious. So yes, we should care about the truth. If it wrong for a woman to be ordained as a minister then it is wrong. Because the gospel comes out of their mouth is why God uses them, in spite of their delusion. Again, that only validates the gospel, not their erring.

But of course this is now moving away from the OP and I have already addressed the OP in another post.

 

Didn't answer the question...do you care?

 

Let's see if I didn't answer the question.

Here is the question YOU asked:

And here was my answer:

You asked if we should care "if that pastor is a woman" and I said "Yes we should care....If it is wrong for a woman to be ordained as a minister, then it is wrong". Either get new glasses or find someone who can explain the obvious to you.

 

To read the Bible concerning this topic is read what on the surface is an inconsistent account. On the one hand you have passages of women serving, leading and having great influence in the church and on the other you have passages that seemingly prohibit this activity...what gives?

Either the Bible is contradicting itself or there needs to be a better understanding of why what was said was said. I don't believe the Bible contradicts itself so therefore:

I believe Paul is addressing specific situations unique to the Greek churches rather then making a "commandment" for all churches in all situations for all time. Also in light of the example of Jesus elevating time and time again women within in his own ministry, I choose to follow his example for my own ministry as imperfect as that may be at times and elevate women out of the culturally accepted roles of society into the fullness of service and ministry to others without a boundary based on gender.

 

Then we are different, if my child truly found a new life in Christ, I wouldn't care what gender the messenger was, just grateful for the willingness to share the message.

BTW, my glasses are fine thanks for asking, you answered in the corporate "we" and I asked the question in the individual "you", small point, but the reason I asked the question again.

Also it is very funny to me that you credit the power of the Gospel to overcome even a "deluded" minister but somehow not human genitalia.

 

Consider that the word used in I Timothy 2:12 that some translate as "authority," actually means to "domineer," as in that pushy female way spoken of earier in this thread. Consider the arguments in this document:

http://www.covchurch.org/uploads/Ul...l-and-Theological-Basis-for-Women-in-Min..pdf

 

I would agree strongly with Go2Church. there are examples of women deacons (Phoepe), apostles (Junia), prophets, the prophesy of women prophysing, judges, women teaching men (priscillia) yet we can take a couple passages that more likely deal with order and develop a theology that says that women should never ever ever teach a man or she will be exercising authority over him

 

Should women take authority over men in the church or the house? God says no.

First I would like us to look at what the book of First Timothy says about this subject.

1 Timothy 2:11-14
11 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." KJV

In verses 11-12, God has shown that he gives specific roles to both man and woman. He tells the woman not to teach, nor take authority over the man.

Note: Usurp- to use without authority or right

In verse 13-14, God tells why he has gave this role. Adam was made first, then Eve. God tells us that Adam was not the one that was deceived, rather it was the woman that was deceived by the devil. I believe God is telling us that this is the reason why man should be the head because Eve was the one to be deceived.

Note: Notice that no where in the book of First Timothy does it give a specific education status to teach. Also I would like you to consider that there were fishermen called to be Jesus' disciples. So education has nothing to do with this subject.


Now Lets look at some verses in 1 Timothy 3:2-4, Titus 1:6-9 and 1 Timothy 6:14.

1 Timothy 3:2-4
2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;" KJV

In verse 2, God tells us the qualifications for a bishop. Notice that one is that he is the husband of one wife. It does not say the wife of one husband.

Then in verse 4, it goes on to says that he must also be ruler of his house. I believe the word of God makes it clear that man must be the ruler of the house. This is not because man is better, but because God has given us specific roles.

I would like to show that is says pretty much the same thing in Titus.

Titus 1:6-9
6 "If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers." KJV


Until when do these rules stand? Let's look in 1 Timothy 6.

1 Timothy 6:14
"That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:" KJV

Paul tells us that these to keep these commandments until the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ. I don't believe Jesus has came back yet, so I don't believe these rules should be done away with.


Now let's go to the book of First Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 11:3
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." KJV

Here it is obvious that it is stating that Christ is the head of man and man is the head of woman. If woman is to take head of the man, that is like man trying to take the head of Christ. I believe this is very wrong and must be avoided.

On down in verses 8-9...

1 Corinthians 11:8-9
8 "For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." KJV

This basically tells us that the woman was created for the man, not the man created for the woman.

Now lets go back up to verse 5.

1 Corinthians 11:5
"But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven." KJV

This tells us that women can pray and prophesy and goes on to talk about how they must do that, but we won't get into that because that is a different subject.

Note: Please take a look where women were prophesying in song in 1 Chronicles 25.


Alright, now lets look at 1 Corinthians 1:2 and 1 Corinthians 14:37.

1 Corinthians 1:2
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:" KJV

Notice that Paul said these rules are not just for the church of Corinth, but for every church. I believe he makes this clear in the above verse.

And then in 1 Corinthians 14:37...

1 Corinthians 14:37
"If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." KJV

We must read God's word and know that this is His commandments. This verse says if we consider ourself spiritual, we must obey these commandments. I don't know how more direct God can be about this subject.


In the book of Isaiah...

Isaiah 3:12
"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." KJV

The prophet Isaiah condemned these people because there were women that ruled over them.


Alright remember that God did not say anything about women not being able to teach children or other women. So I believe this is alright for women to do. I believe women can have their own studies, where only women are present. Also, I would like to bring back up, that women can also sing and pray in church. When women are to be told to keep silent in church, it only means they cannot take authority over the males in the church by teaching or preaching. Here is an example of women teaching other women in the Bible.

Titus 2:3-5
3 "The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed." KJV


Finally I want to end this article with some verses in Ephesians 5:21-25.

Ephesians 5:21-25
21 "Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" KJV

In verse 22, wives are told to submit to their husbands and also the Lord.

Then in verse 23-24, we see here again that the husband is head of the wife, as Christ is ahead of the church. So as the church is subject to Christ, the wife must also be subject to the husband.

And here in verse 25, men are told to love their wives like Christ loved the church. Christ loved the church so much that he gave his life for us. Praise God!


I'm sorry if this article has angered or saddened anyone. I did not type this to do so, rather I wanted to point out what God has clearly said about this subject, that I see is a problem today. We must never be afraid to quote God's word because only God's word is the absolute truth. We can always correct people by God's word and that will never change. God's word will stand forever!

2 Timothy 3:16
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" KJV

God Bless you all. Your Brother in Christ, Cody

 

A leader has to serve...but a servant is not necessarily a leader. All Scripture pertaining to women in elder / deacon roles needs to be the same way. Scripture is clear that both deacons and elders are to be the "husband of one wife...".