Women Pastors

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Claudia_T, May 5, 2006.

  1. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    Hello Everybody,

    I missed all the topics about Women Pastors and so I would just like to know how everybody feels about that.

    Should only men be Pastors and if so, why?

    Here is how I see it...

    The Bible says that the serpent deceived Eve, and that thus the woman should not teach but learn in silence.


    I Timothy 2:
    11: Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
    12: But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
    13: For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
    14: And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

    Because the Bible says she was DECEIVED by some outside being, it is for that reason I believe women ought to be able to "teach" in a setting where nobody is around to trick her into anything.

    Because the way I see it, women go more on emotions instead of just reasoning, like men do. Therefore, it isnt that women are "dumber". they are just easier to deceive if someone else is around who is trying to fool her.

    So if a woman wants to be a Pastor, thats a bad idea because there will always be unbelievers, atheists, etc who come around asking questions and trying to trip her up...

    Whereas, if a woman wanted to write a book on religious topics, or articles, etc...then this would be acceptable with God.

    That way, women get a chance to use the brains that they have been given but at the same time dont open themselves up to deception.


    Claudia
     
  2. Jacob Dahlen

    Jacob Dahlen
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    Women Pastors are servents of the devil.
     
  3. Petrel

    Petrel
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    Well, we know that people fall along a continuum, so that some are more logical and others are more swayed by emotion. Men are not solely rational creatures, they are not all Vulcans. Some men may be quite emotional indeed and not have a lot of use for logic. There are women who are rather unemotional and quite rational. Wouldn't it make more sense to apply some type of test to measure where a person falls along the continuum if rationality is the only concern? That way we could weed out the men who should not be preaching due to their emotional nature and not needlessly prevent the Vulcan-like women from exercising their logic unencumbered by emotion.

    I'm afraid your point of view could be used to prevent women from having any sort of contact with the outside world in the absence of a male guardian. If women are too foolish to be able to determine what is true in spiritual matters without being misled, then the same is going to be true in other matters such as relationships, money handling, and politics. If women can be prevented from preaching due to concerns that their irrational nature might lead them astray and cause them to harm others, then they can be prevented from other practices as well.
     
  4. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Claudia.

    If women are so deceived and led by emotions, and apt to make mistakes, then maybe they shouldn't be Prophets either.
    [​IMG]

    It takes a lot more dicernment to be a Prophet(you are supposed to be hearing directly from God) than to be a Pastor, so if women can be prophets, then if they won't to, I see nothing wrong with them being Pastors.

    And in Joel it does say we can prophecy.

    Peace,

    Tam
     
  5. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    Tammy,

    the Bible has many instances of women prophets, such as Deborah and Phillips daughters but the Bible also says women shouldnt teach.

    Go figure.

    Claudia
     
  6. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    Well, we know that people fall along a continuum, so that some are more logical and others are more swayed by emotion. Men are not solely rational creatures, they are not all Vulcans. Some men may be quite emotional indeed and not have a lot of use for logic. There are women who are rather unemotional and quite rational. Wouldn't it make more sense to apply some type of test to measure where a person falls along the continuum if rationality is the only concern? That way we could weed out the men who should not be preaching due to their emotional nature and not needlessly prevent the Vulcan-like women from exercising their logic unencumbered by emotion.

    I'm afraid your point of view could be used to prevent women from having any sort of contact with the outside world in the absence of a male guardian. If women are too foolish to be able to determine what is true in spiritual matters without being misled, then the same is going to be true in other matters such as relationships, money handling, and politics. If women can be prevented from preaching due to concerns that their irrational nature might lead them astray and cause them to harm others, then they can be prevented from other practices as well.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Okay then why does the Bible say women shouldnt teach because the woman was the one deceived?


    ...and I understood everything you were saying till you got to this part: "Wouldn't it make more sense to apply some type of test to measure where a person falls along the continuum if rationality is the only concern?"

    Claudia
     
  7. gekko

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    well... isn't Teaching and Prophesying different things?

    So if women of the bible were allowed to be Prophets or rather judges of Israel...

    and not allowed to Teach... obviously there's gotta be difference between the two? right?

    or im i off track? haha.
     
  8. Claudia_T

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    yeah you're right but also the Bible says a prophet does lots of things just besides having visions. They give comfort, encouragement, and other stuff besides...

    I cant hardly see how that wouldnt include teaching though.

    Maybe its like certain designated women could do that.

    Here's an observation I just thought of:

    2Tm:3:6: For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

    Could you just imagine if it said "silly MEN"?

    LOL!
     
  9. Jim1999

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    It is interesting that Paul gives the same instructions for deacons as if they are all men, yet clearly in 1 Tim 3:8-13 a woman serves as a deaconess (verse 11 should read "women" rather than the KJV "deacon's wives compare this verse with the RV.) Remember Phoebe was a "servant" (Greek diakonos)Romans 16:1.

    Some understand this whole passage to be local church specific and not address the "laws" for the whole.

    I have seen female pastors in both the Baptist Churches and the ANglican Church, and they perform quite ably.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  10. Claudia_T

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    What exactly does a deacon do?
     
  11. donnA

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    The bible does not say women are easily deceived, it says Eve was deceived. And anyone is open for deception, not just women. The only valid reason you give for women to not pastor is scripture itself.
     
  12. Claudia_T

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    1Pt:3:7: Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel


    I Timothy 2:
    11: Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
    12: But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
    13: For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
    14: And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
     
  13. artjaggard

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    I took this from beacon churches forum :
    It seems to me that there is a legitimate case to make that women should preach (prophesy). In addition in Romans 12 there is June the apostle and Phoebe the deacon. So while it seems to be the exception, there certainly is a time when Paul recognized women in both roles.

    Art Jaggard
     
  14. JFox1

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  15. Chemnitz

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    That isn't even remotely correct as diakonos in the masculine and diakonas in Rm 16:1 is in the feminine. In addition, guniakas generally means wife. Despite how talented a women is she should never attempt to take an office God never meant for her to fill. A woman taking the office of the pastor would trash the image God intended for a congregation. The congregation is a miniture picture of the church at large who is the bride of Christ. On the congregation the image is maintained with the Pastor who is Christ's representative to the church in local.
     
  16. Jim1999

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    My interpretation of 1 Tim 3 is not new, and most commentators of old follow the same thinking. Since there were female deacons in other Pauline books, and then the proper Greek translation of the Timothy text including women specifically, there is no scripture banning females from the pulpit, in my opinion and others such as Jamison, Fawcett and Brown, F.F. Bruce et al.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  17. Claudia_T

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    You know just reading what Chemnitz said, I have thought of that aspect of it too... the fact that if you have a woman Pastor, people already have a mental picture of that and many would be prejudiced against having a woman Pastor.

    This could cause all sorts of problems, lack of respect, etc...

    Is it worth it? What if people wont really listen to the Pastor's sermons? And just the image it would give to unbelievers.

    Today there is still, like it or not, a prejudice against women. And Im just saying, is it worth all the trouble trying to battle through all that..

    I was thinking too, you know, all the 12 disciples of Christ were men.


    Claudia
     
  18. Jim1999

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    The world has been male oriented for many years, and women are just coming into their own. They kept the home front during the war years, and continued in small measure after the war. God bless them, they are still fighting for their rightful place. I can do no other than to stand with them.

    With the female to male ratio in so many churches it was bound to happen. I noticed more women enrolling at the university each year in major theological studies. Where would they go other than into ministry?

    Frankly, I think it better to seek another understanding of what Paul was saying in Timothy. Just maybe he was addressing a unique problem in the church at Ephesus....females attempting to prophesy without authority.

    A closed mind will never discover truth in its fullness.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  19. artjaggard

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    Claudia wrote:
    It is true that the '12' were all men. Luke 8:1-3 adds to the '12' seven more, all women. So that when you arrive at the post-ressurection church in Acts 1:13-14, the disciples included the 12, the 7, Mary the mother of Jesus and His brothers.

    The 12 occupied a special role, no doubt. But so did the 7.

    Art Jaggard
     
  20. Claudia_T

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    true, true, true!!!
     

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