Women Pastors

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Michael Wrenn, Oct 18, 2001.

  1. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    For those of you who got such hilarity out of my mention on another thread of my belief in women pastors, I wonder do you also follow the other restrictions that Paul gave. Do you make your women shut up when they enter the church doors? Do you require that they wear a head covering? Do you forbid them to cut their hair?

    Since women were prophetesses in the Bible, and since prophets and prophetesses "forthtold", or preached, that puts your interpretation on tenuous ground.

    As I've said before, I'm glad God is in charge and not some Christians I know. And, I'm glad God continues to exercise His sovereignty by calling women as well as men into pastoral ministry, in spite of fundamentalist Baptists saying that He can't do that or doesn't do that because of what Paul said.
     
  2. Joy

    Joy
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    Think I'd make a good preacher, eh?! :D
     
  3. Joey M

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    12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


    34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.


    Both of these verses have to do with forbidding the woman to preach or having authority over the man. It has nothing to do with her testifiying or singing.


    "And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life."
     
  4. Joey M

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    1 Peter 3:5-7 "5For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 6Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. 7Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered."


    No offence to women, but God is saying here, Not Paul, that women are the weaker vessel. And therefore that is why God put the man over the woman and man over the Church, under Christ of course.

    And again Adam, though he ate of the fruit also was not deceived as Eve was... Why do you think Adam is placed with the fall of man when Eve ate first? Because Adam was the head of his household.

    1 Tim. 2:12-15 "12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."
     
  5. Kiffin

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    Joey, is correct. Paul is not giving his opinion but it is Divine revelation regarding leadership in both the home and church.

    The office of prophet or prophetesses is not synomous with pastor. A pastor is the leader of a new Testament church while the other simply means a foretelling. The scriptures Joey quoted are pretty solid on who is the leader.
     
  6. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Joy,

    You might! [​IMG]

    Joey,

    Christ remedied the inequity that resulted from the fall.

    Kiffin,

    A prophet/prophetess was not simply a "foreteller", as you maintain, but also a "forthteller", or a preacher.
     
  7. Reklaw

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    I really don't see much of an argument here... Women are obviously told not to hold positions of authority, based on the references given and even some not given.

    The only thing I've heard to go against this is the idea of prophetesses, etc. They weren't pastors, they were just women God used. They didn't hold positions of authority, but they were respected as women of God.

    As per asking "Well, should we deny that women cut their hair, etc.?" We certainly should, the Bible tells us to. We don't though because it's considered politically incorrect.
     
  8. Raulf7

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    If a woman is not to preach and this is Gods way, then a woman that does preach is not guided by the Holy Spirit
     
  9. Kiffin

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    Michael,

    I believe Recklaw answered the question,

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> They weren't pastors, they were just women God used. They didn't hold positions of authority, but they were respected as women of God<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Do you agree with the Apostle Paul's command?
     
  10. SaggyWoman

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    What do women do to be respected as women of God??
     
  11. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    What I don't agree with is fundamentalist presuppositions.

    "In Christ there is neither male nor female."
     
  12. SaggyWoman

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    I don't know that I could go for women pastors, but I think women can be in leadership roles without usurping a man's authority.
     
  13. Aaron

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
    What I don't agree with is fundamentalist presuppositions.

    "In Christ there is neither male nor female."
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Then you are in favor of same sex unions? :confused:
     
  14. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Aaron,

    Lord, have mercy!

    I have already stated on this board that I think homosexuality is a sin; I am not in favor of same-sex unions.
     
  15. Dr. Bob

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    Can solve a lot of conflict by asking "are you talking about a woman pastoring a church or talking about a woman preaching the Word of God?"

    I think the Bible is clear about excluding women from pastoring while not excluding them as preaching the Word.

    Clarification please! Thanks
     
  16. Joy

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    [Titus 2:3] The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

    [Titus 2:4] That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

    [Titus 2:5] To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

    Even if you are not married, as a woman you can follow the instructions in these verses.

    You can behave like a Christian woman ought to. You can be honest. You can be sober. You can be a teacher of good things. You can teach younger women to be sober, to love their husbands and children if they have them or will have them in the future. You can teach them discreetness, chastity, the importance of guarding their homes, of being good, and being obedient to their own husbands so that the Word of God won't be made of none effect.

    (don't see anything about pastoring a church here!) ;)
     
  17. Joy

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    This is another area where the proper teachings of Dispensationalism help with interpretation. The nation of Israel is not the same theoretically or in function as the Church or in the Age of Grace. The epistles did give certain commands for how the church was and is to function. Women are very important in the function of the church, primarily in their focus to their husbands and their children, but they were also commanded to teach the younger women how to be godly women and keep their homes. They were never given authority to pastor or to lead the church.

    There is no contradiction about this matter in the Bible. There were judges in the OT who were women and who were leaders for a short time of Israel. They were not pastors of a New Testament local church.

    There were some women primarily in Acts who prophesied. (They probably had the gift of discernment) Again, these women were never pastors of a local New Testament church.

    Historically, at the time of Paul's writings, he had no need to go into more specific details than he did, because it was generally recognized by all women in most cultures that she was to be in her home. Many woman helped out some in her husband's businesses some, and they were encouraged to bring their wares to the marketplace to be sold, but any woman who tried to have any sort of career or to usurp authority over an man in any way was considered to be a whore. In the Bible, when a woman is out of her place, the Word of God is blasphemed-made of none effect.
     
  18. KeeperOfMyHome

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
    What I don't agree with is fundamentalist presuppositions.

    "In Christ there is neither male nor female."
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last I checked, that particular verse is in reference to salvation being for all!
     
  19. KeeperOfMyHome

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    Amen! Preach it to us sister! :D

    ROFL . . . hahahahahaha [​IMG]
     
  20. Briguy

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    Dr. Bob writes:

    "I think the Bible is clear about excluding women from pastoring while not excluding them as preaching the Word."

    Preaching to women and children, "yes", to the gathered mixed assembly,"No".
    It is a shame (word for shame is best interpreted as "deformed")
    Picture God's design for the gathered assembly as a perfect cicle. When a women Preaches/teaches in the mixed assembly, God says, through Paul, that it is deformed, like egg shaped instead of the intended cicle. God said it not me!!
    In Christ,
    Brian
     

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