Word differences: 1611 vs. newer KJVs

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by BrianT, Aug 29, 2003.

  1. BrianT

    BrianT
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    Here's a non-complete list of a few sample word differences (not "typos") between the original 1611 KJV and newer KJV's:

    - Exo 21:32 - newer KJV's have "of silver", the 1611 doesn't
    - 2 Kings 11:10 - the 1611 has "the Temple", newer KJVs have "the temple of the LORD".
    - Eccl 8:17 - the 1611 has "seek it out", more recent KJVs have "seek it out, yet he shall not find it."
    - Jer 38:16 - the 1611 has "So the king sware", newer KJVs have "So Zedekiah the king sware".
    - 2 Cor 11:32 - newer KJV's have "the city of the Damascenes", the 1611 has only "the city".
    - Eph 6:24 - "Amen" has been added to newer KJVs.
    - 2 Tim 4:13 - the 1611 has "thee", more recent KJVs have "thee and the books".
    - 1 John 5:12 - newer KJV's have "Son of God", the 1611 has simply "Son".

    Thanks to Rick Norris for this info.
     
  2. Dr. Bob

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    And what is different is not the same.

    If there is one change that is not a typo, spelling or type-face from the "perfect" 1611, then either the 1611 was not "perfect" or the newer version is not "perfect".

    Will file away this list. Thanks.
     
  3. Jim1999

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    In each of these cases, what is different is the same, just clearer in meaning.

    Isn't a part of translating from another tongue expressing the full intent of the speaker?

    It's not like the olde English words which reversed meanings such as "let" and "hinder".

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  4. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
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    gt examples!

    2 QUESTIONS TO KJBOs (yes, Homebound, Askjo, et al.):

    1. How many words can be added to the good Book in the light of Rev. 22?

    2. Why do your "dependable" sources (Ruckman, Gipp, Waite, n co.) suppress these data in their works?
     
  5. Surfer5

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    1. Not all KJVOs use either Ruckman or Gipp
    (I am not familiar with Ruckman and I personally do not use his work)

    2. Some KJVOs are actually simply more TR-only

    3. I am not sure if it accurate to contend that merely because data has not been presented, that this means that it has been supressed.

    4. I often use a 1635 KJV, though I could use a Geneva Bible as well.


    Surfer5
     
  6. AV Defender

    AV Defender
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    In 1852,the American Bible Society announced that:


    "The English Bible,as left by the translators,has come down to us unaltered in respect to it's text"(P.7,report,American Bible Society Press,115 Nassau St.N.Y.,1852,adopted 1851).

    And I agree 100% with that statement.
     
  7. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
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    Do you use the 1611 AV, as your name implies??
     
  8. BrianT

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    Well, obviously the ABS was wrong as the list in the very first post of this thread can prove. The text *did* alter slightly.
     
  9. Dr. Bob

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    I have met quite a few who heralded the AV1611 but never once have I met one who actually used it and read it and preached from it and pronounced the AV1611.

    All used one of the many many revisions in public.
     
  10. Baptist in Richmond

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  11. BrianT

    BrianT
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    I see no KJV-only supporters are willing to explain the word changes listed in the first post, and the impact of these changes on KJV-onlyism. Big surprise. [​IMG]
     
  12. Jeffrey H

    Jeffrey H
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    Great Post! Brian T's first post ruins the King James Only defense and the credibility of their arguments. Their voices have been stopped in my opinion.
     
  13. Archangel7

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    Anyone who claims that there are no changes in the actual wording of the 1611 KJV which singificantly change the meaning of the text is simply mistaken. Consider the following examples:


    "And she laid up his garment by her, until *her* lord came home." (Gen. 39:16, 1611 KJV)

    "And she laid up his garment by her, until *his* lord came home." (Gen. 39:16, today's KJV)

    Whose lord came home -- hers or his?


    "If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels, and the ox shall be stoned." (Ex. 21:32, 1611 KJV)

    "If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels *of silver*, and the ox shall be stoned." (Ex. 21:32, today's KJV)

    Just "shekels?" Or "shekels" of a specific type?


    "And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the *names* of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth." (Ex. 23:13, 1611 KJV)

    "And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the *name* of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth." (Ex. 23:13, today's KJV)

    One name or many names?


    "And if thou bring an oblation of a meat offering baken in the oven, it shall be *an unleavened cake* of fine flour mingled with oil, or unleavened wafers anointed with oil." (Lev. 2:4, 1611 KJV)

    "And if thou bring an oblation of a meat offering baken in the oven, it shall be *unleavened cakes* of fine flour mingled with oil, or unleavened wafers anointed with oil." (Lev. 2:4, today's KJV)

    How many unleavened cakes are required here? Just one? Or more than one?


    "Even those that were numbered of them, throughout their families, by the *houses* of their fathers, were two thousand and six hundred and thirty." (Num 4:40, 1611 KJV)

    "Even those that were numbered of them, throughout their families, by the *house* of their fathers, were two thousand and six hundred and thirty." (Num 4:40, today's KJV)

    One house or many houses?


    "O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!" (Deut. 5:29, 1611 KJV)

    "O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep *all* my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!" (Deut. 5:29, today's KJV)

    Will it be well with Israel if they keep just some of God's commandments, or must they keep all of them?


    "And as they that bare the ark were come unto Jordan, and the feet of the priests that bare the ark were dipped in the brim of the water, (for Jordan overfloweth all his banks *at* the time of harvest,)" (Josh. 3:15, 1611 KJV)

    "And as they that bare the ark were come unto Jordan, and the feet of the priests that bare the ark were dipped in the brim of the water, (for Jordan overfloweth all his banks *all* the time of harvest,) (Josh. 3:15, today's KJV)

    Does the water of the Jordan overflow at some point during harvest season, or does it overflow throughout the entire harvest season?


    "And to the captains over hundreds did the priest give king David's spears and shields, that were in the temple." (2 Kg. 11:10, 1611 KJV)

    "And to the captains over hundreds did the priest give king David's spears and shields, that were in the temple *of the LORD*." (2 Kg. 11:10, today's KJV)

    Is it just "temple," or is it "temple of the LORD?"


    "The humble shall see this, and be glad: and your heart shall live that seek *good.*" (Psa. 69:32, 1611 KJV)

    "The humble shall see this, and be glad: and your heart shall live that seek *God*." (Psa. 69:32, today's KJV)

    So do we seek good or God?


    "Then I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labour to seek it out, yea further though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it." (Eccl. 8:17, 1611 KJV)

    "Then I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labour to seek it out, *yet he shall not find it*; yea further; though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it." (Eccl. 8:17, today's KJV)

    Are the words "yet he shall not find it" the words of God or not?


    "Sing, O *heaven*; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for *God* hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted." (Isa. 49:13, 1611 KJV)

    "Sing, O *heavens*; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for *the LORD* hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted." (Isa. 49:13, today's KJV)

    Is it "heaven" or "heavens?" And is the Divine Name used here or not?


    "So the king sware secretly unto Jeremiah, saying, As the LORD liveth, that made us this soul, I will not put thee to death, neither will I give thee into the hand of these men that seek thy life." (Jer 38:16, 1611 KJV)

    "So *Zedekiah* the king sware secretly unto Jeremiah, saying, As the LORD liveth, that made us this soul, I will not put thee to death, neither will I give thee into the hand of these men that seek thy life." (Jer 38:16, today's KJV)

    So is the king mentioned by name or not?


    "Concerning the Ammonites, thus saith the LORD; Hath Israel no sons? hath he no heir? why then doth their king inherit *God*, and his people dwell in his cities?" (Jer. 49:1, 1611 KJV)

    "Concerning the Ammonites, thus saith the LORD; Hath Israel no sons? hath he no heir? why then doth their king inherit *Gad,* and his people dwell in his cities?" (Jer. 49:1, today's KJV)

    Have the Ammonites inherited both God and God's cities? Or merely the territory and cities of Gad?


    "And go, get thee to them of the captivity, unto *thy people*, and speak unto them, and tell them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear." (Ezek. 3:11, 1611 KJV)

    "And go, get thee to them of the captivity, unto *the children of thy people*, and speak unto them, and tell them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear." (Ezek. 3:11, 1611 KJV)

    To whom is Ezekiel to go -- to his people, or to their children?


    "For her blood is in the midst of her; she set it upon the top of a rock; she poured it upon the ground, to cover it with dust" (Ezek. 24:7, 1611 KJV).

    "For her blood is in the midst of her; she set it upon the top of a rock; she poured it *not* upon the ground, to cover it with dust" (Ezek. 24:7, today's KJV).

    So did she pour it out or not?


    "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art *Christ*, the Son of the living God." (Mt. 16:16, 1611 KJV)

    "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art *the Christ*, the Son of the living God." (Mt. 16:16, today's KJV)

    Just Christ? Or THE Christ?


    "But when he saw Jesus afar off, he *came* and worshipped him" (Mk. 5:6, 1611 KJV)

    "But when he saw Jesus afar off, he *ran* and worshipped him" (Mk. 5:6, today's KJV)

    Did the man simply come to Jesus, perhaps walking? Or did he run to Jesus?


    "It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of *things* from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus" (Lk. 1:3, 1611 KJV)

    "It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of *all things* from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus" (Lk. 1:3, today's KJV)

    Did Luke have perfect understanding of only a few things, or of all things?


    "Therefore his *sister* sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick." (Jn. 11:3, 1611 KJV)

    "Therefore his *sisters* sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick." (Jn. 11:3, today's KJV)

    Did only one of the two sisters send word to Jesus about Lazarus, or did they both send word?


    "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, *helps in governments*, diversities of tongues." (1 Cor. 12:28, 1611 KJV)

    "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, *helps, governments*, diversities of tongues." (1 Cor. 12:28, today's KJV)

    Is Paul speaking of one administrative gift known as "helps in governments," or is he speaking of two different gifts, a gift of "helps" and a gift of "governments?"


    "In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me:" (2 Cor 11:32, 1611 KJV)

    "In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city *of the Damascenes* with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me:" (2 Cor 11:32, today's KJV)

    Just "the city?" Or "the city of the Damascenes?"


    "Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity." (Eph. 6:24, 1611 KJV)

    "Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. *Amen*. " (Eph. 6:24, today's KJV)

    Do I hear an "amen" or not? [​IMG]


    "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than *edifying* which is in faith: so do." (1 Tim. 1:4, 1611 KJV)

    "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than *godly edifying* which is in faith: so do." (1 Tim. 1:4, today's KJV)

    So is it merely edifying, or is it a particluar kind of edifying, namely, godly edifying?


    "The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, but especially the parchments." (2 Tim. 4:13, 1611 KJV)

    "The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, *and the books*, but especially the parchments." (2 Tim. 4:13, today's KJV)

    Was Timothy to bring the books or not?


    "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual *sacrifice*, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." (1 Pet. 2:5, 1611 KJV)

    "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual *sacrifices*, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." (1 Pet. 2:5, today's KJV)

    Is Peter telling us to offer one single spiritual sacrifice, or many different spiritual sacrifices?


    "He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not *the Son* hath not life." (1 Jn. 5:12, 1611 KJV)

    "He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not *the Son of God* hath not life." (1 Jn. 5:12, today's KJV)

    So is it "the Son" or "the Son of God?"


    These are but a few of the numerous examples of differences in wording and meaning between the 1611 KJV and today's KJV. So KJV-Only advocates are faced with some thorny questions. Which version of the KJV in each of these cases is correct? Since the "original" translators' copy no longer exists, how do you *know* which version of the KJV is correct? Which version of the KJV has God's "pure, preserved words?" How can you *know* this for certain?

    I eagerly await a response.
     
  14. HankD

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    Brother Jim writes

    But Jim, KJVO folk seem to have a double standard, if it's the KJV revisions differences, they are - to clear up typos, spelling problems and other insignificant problems and are part of the biblical "purification" process, otherwise it is "things which are different are not the same" and the MV translators making those differences based upon a difference of opinion concerning the source or meaning of a word/phrase are "agents" of Satan.

    HankD
     
  15. BrianT

    BrianT
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    Interesting how some posters are avoiding this thread like the plague. [​IMG]
     
  16. Jim1999

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    Well, if you want another KJV error,, any edition, you can look to the age of Ahaziah,,in one passge he is 22, and another he is 42. One must consider the context to know that he was 22 as his father was 40.

    These are not serious errors and none of the above affect any doctrine.

    I am not a KJV onlyist, but I do only use my Cambridge 1945 KJV in preaching and public services. My reason has to do with age and wot I memorized from youth on up.

    To my mind, every tool that magnifies the Word, the Lord Jesus, is quite fine with me......even the Cockney Bible.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  17. Archangel7

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    Interesting indeed. [​IMG]
     
  18. timothy 1769

    timothy 1769
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    Archangel, I found your list on the web, word for word. You should always be sure to credit your sources.

    http://www.catholicapologetics.net/differences_between.htm

    Btw, all the differences look like printer's errors to me. No big deal. I assume the vast majority were found before the second printing.

    [ September 24, 2003, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: timothy 1769 ]
     
  19. RaptureReady

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    That's right timothy1769, no big deal.
     
  20. Pastor Larry

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    Then you need to look closer. There are a great number of these errors that are not printer's errors. They are actual additions and deletions.

    But even if they were printer's errors, that is an insufficient argument. A printer's error is .. you guessed it ... an error. In an inerrant Bible, there cannot be an "error" and still be "inerrant." The law of non-contradiction kicks in here.

    If God superintended the KJV as he did the autographa, then the KJV would be like the autographa ... with no errors whatsoever. Your admission of printer's errors (while an inadequate explanation) reveals that you have compromised the doctrine of Scripture by affirming that an inspired Scripture can have errors while being inerrant. This is what we mean when we say that the doctrine KJVOs teach does not match up with the doctrine God revealed.
     

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