'Worldliness' - Define it please.

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by tfisher1, Mar 7, 2006.

  1. tfisher1

    tfisher1
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    Ok, I go to an IFB church. And of course worldliness is spoken of anytime the issue of contemporary music, dress etc... comes up. I would like to see people's definition of 'the world' or 'worldliness'. Romans 12:1-2 are always quoted as the definitive verses against 'being like the world'. If an unsaved person invents something and I like it am I now 'worldly'. If wearing my facial hair a certain way because I think it looks cool am I know 'worldly' as described in Romans?

    What is 'worldly' to you? I believe it has more to do with setting your heart towards seeking the approval of men instead of God. I also believe it to be more of a spiritual condition and not an external condition of clothing, music etc....

    What say ye?
     
  2. Andy T.

    Andy T.
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    You are on the right track - it is primarily a heart issue, but it often manifests itself externally (though not always). The question is where is our affection? Is it on Christ and pleasing Him, or is it somewhere else?
     
  3. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    Colossians 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
     
  4. arkie pastor

    arkie pastor
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    I believe Jesus gives us in Matt 6:19-34 gives us a very good example of the difference between worldiness and Godlines.

    And yes according to verse 21 he explains that the heart is the source of our affections.

    The best definition I can gleen from Scriptures for worldiness.......is anything and everything we have in our lives that takes higher presedence than God is worldiness.

    And yes Andy I believe all are external manifestations protray where out heart lays.


    When I was working as what you might call youth pastor....I used a little illustration...If you want joy in your life follow the letters in this word.

    J--Jesus
    O--others
    Y--you

    I personally believe if we just get this set prioity set in our minds and follow it in all that transpires in our lives, God will got all the honor and glory from our lives.
     
  5. blackbird

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    Worldliness??? I think about ole Demas who followed Paul---but then there came a day when . . . and Paul says, "Demas hath left me having loved this present world."

    The neon lights were a little too bright for our pal, Demas!!!
     
  6. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
     
  7. rbell

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    "Worldliness" i an inner condition that may or may not be evident to the general public. Jesus' teaching in the Sermon on the Mount offers so much insight here, especially the "you have heard...but I say" teachings. He was talking to many who had a form of righteousness (fasting, praying, tithing pharisees), but whose inner motivation was self, not God.

    tfisher1, I think "worldly" is so much deeper than someone's pet sin (or pet dislike).
    "Worldliness" is when we, as aliens to this culture, begin to think of ourselves as natives here, instead of ambassadors for Christ (1 Peter 2:9-12).

    Unfortunately, some folks use "worldliness" as a cop-out to describe something that doesn't suit their tastes or preferences. We should be careful to assign the "sin" label to things that are sin, but if it's a matter of taste or preference, to keep it in that realm.

    Just my $0.0005 (after taxes).
     
  8. Ron Arndt

    Ron Arndt
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    My goodness, we are ALL worldily to some extent. Worldliness is simply allowing the influence of what the world offers into your everyday life. Lord knows I love those TV shows "24" and 'Battlestar Gallactica". I also have a big screen TV with a DVD player to rent those movies that I like, like "Walk the Line", which I just saw last week.

    So we are all influenced by the things of this world, unless of course we go live in a cave in the Ozarks, which I don't think to many of us will wish to do.The question is, do our worldily pleasures outweigh our spiritual time? If it does then their truly is an unbalance.
     
  9. Aaron

    Aaron
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    So, as long as the good outweighs the bad, you're safe. Right Ron?
     
  10. Aaron

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    arkie, excellent answer. [​IMG]

    I know it's excellent, because that's exactly what I would say. [​IMG]
     
  11. Ron Arndt

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    Aaron

    Whether we want to admit it or not, what you say is true.
     
  12. Rhetorician

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    tfisher1,

    How about, "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world, . . . the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the pride of life." This seems to be self-explanatory does it not?

    It is also written in Luke's Gospel, the things that are highly esteemed by man are an abomination unto God.

    Just recounting those verses makes me want to go off and pray and repent!!

    sdg!

    rd
     
  13. tfisher1

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    Adding: Define Godliness.....or Godly:

    1. Godliness is:
    - If hollywood part their hair on the side, I'll part mine in the middle...
    - If musician turn thier collars up, I won't!
    - If the band uses drums and guitars, I won't

    I am really trying to get to the heart of this matter as I keep getting into discussion with people about comments they make and they can never seem to give me satisfactory answers:
    For instance, whenever a young man graduates from our Christian High School and proceeds to let his hair grow over his ears and collar, even if he seems to be a dedicated young man who loves the Lord and has never given any indication otherwise, I hear comments such as "He's just being rebellious", or "He obviously wants to be like the 'world'(theirs that word again!!). Whenever I confront them to explain to me why they think he is 'worldly' or 'rebellious' I get some pretty strange answers. Especially if I simply say, 'Do you think maybe he thinks he looks better with his hair like that, and he's not trying to be 'worldly'. Why do you have a moustache? Do you think it makes you look better? Who are you trying to impress?....

    Anyway, I think I'm just getting tired of hearing the terms 'worldly', 'worldliness', and 'Godly' or 'Godliness' used everytime somebody isn't keeping step with someone else's view based on mostly external prerequisites.
    Also, let's take a ridiculous example... many men put gel in their hair to make it look wet or for creating a certain style. Is that worldly? If this is what the world does then should I be refraining. I am trying to drill down why we call music worldy... instrument used? rhythm? If the world likes it I can't?? Is worldliness defined by hollywood and secular musicians?

    still searching for answers...
     
  14. rbell

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    and get ready...you'll get A BUNCH of different answers here!

    To some, hair touching a guy's ear or collar, or jeans on a Sunday morning is sin. Others' view and focuses more on not causing others to stumble (i.e., suggestive clothing causing one struggling with lust to stumble). Still others would say that short of provocative or blasphemous/vulgar messages, clothes are up to the wearer.

    I guess I look at the heart mattering the most. If I'm wearing something or doing something to "stick it to the legalists," then my heart's not right. Vindictiveness is worldly. But if I'm going over someone with a microscope, looking for "worldliness" so I can blast them, then I'm being legalistic and pharasaical...and that's worldly as well.

    What we do, we should do with humility, and as unto the Lord.

    And, one of the reasons I am Baptist is because of local church autonomy. I firmly believe in some of the stuff our church does (a contemporary approach to one worship service, cutting edge to another, and traditional to yet another, for example), is viewed as terrible by some on this board. Fine. I've prayed about it, and I'm good with what God is using in our congregation...I'm sure that others that differ with me on some of the "minor stuff" are going to faithfully serve God in their church, whose ideas differ.
     
  15. Johnv

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    Scripturally speaking, worldliness is something pertaining to the temporal world that impedes or interferes with one's view of God.

    However, worldliness is typically defined by Christians as "anything secular that I don't approve of". ;)

    Discerning worldliness is a double-edged sword. Scripture does not, for the most part, define what is worldly, and indeed, what constitutes as worldly may change depending on circumstance or condition. Someting may be worldly for one person at a specific point in time, and might not be worldly for another person at another point in time. We as discerning Christians need to be very careful identifying what is worldly, and need to likewise be careful not to overlook something that is worldly.
     
  16. Salamander

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    I could agree with your first statement, but not the other two.

    Anything "secualr" is definitely worldly as it detracts from the things of God and emphasises the activities of the world.

    It's the "association game": the deviant behavious pattern is established, those activities associated with that behaviour are worldly. Note that all deviants do participate in some good activities, but when the majority of the participates are deviant, then mark it down: it's WORLDLY!
     
  17. Johnv

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    I see what you mean, but simply being secular does not equate to being worldly, at least not in the sense that they detract from God.

    My choice of cookware when I made breakfast this morning was secular. My choice of which car I drive is secular. My choice in which brand of toilet paper I use is secular. My choice on whether to pay with a ten dollar bill, or a five and five ones, or use a debit card, is secular. None of those things detracts from God.

    [ March 16, 2006, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]
     
  18. william s. correa

    william s. correa
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    Hellivision, Hell's Box office
     
  19. Gold Dragon

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    I consider it worldliness when Christians believe that a style of dress or music used by Christians in a temporal culture in the past is the standard by which we judge Christians in the present. 50 years from now, clothing and music styles used by Christians will be different from those used today. That is not in any way an indication of their spiritual relationship with God.

    Worldliness raises cultural norms (past or present) above what God desires of the heart.
     

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