worldliness in the church

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by tinytim, Jul 31, 2006.

  1. tinytim

    tinytim
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    I've heard it said that there is too much worldliness in the churches today.

    And I'm afraid that this varies by people's opinion of what worldliness is.

    So I wanted to start this thread so that all of us kind, tenderhearted baptists can discuss this.

    So...

    1. Can you give me specific examples of what worldly practices have crept into the church.

    2. How do YOU decide what is worldly and what is not? Please be specific.... just saying, "if it is of the world, then it is sin" is too easy, and misleading because then we would have to eliminate having electricity in the church...so let's put some thought into this.
     
  2. Rex77

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    So I wanted to start this thread so that all of us kind, tenderhearted baptists can discuss this.

    Are you sure you are on the right board?:smilewinkgrin:
     
  3. 2BHizown

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    Puppets
    Rock groups
    Motorcycles
    Sand castles
    Drama shows
    Dances
    All and any entertainment.
    Not to mention the current trend of motivational speakers and 'preaching'.
    Absence of a high, holy, view of God and a biblical worldview!
     
  4. tinytim

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    Ive heard of all except sand castles....explain please

    and would "any and all entertainment" include Saturday evening sings or 5th Sunday sings that are used to bring in the southern gospel crowd? Would you include that as entertainment?
     
    #4 tinytim, Jul 31, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2006
  5. webdog

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    Are you serious?!?
     
  6. webdog

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    Well, since "worldliness" is another word for sinfulness, I would have to say female pastors / elders, the allowance of homosexuality, gossip blanketed as a "prayer request" and running a pastor out of a church due to non biblical reasons.

    Puppets, music, dress and sand castles (?) are NOT what worldliness is defined as, but what legalism is.
     
  7. TaterTot

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    Surely there is a tongue in that cheek.

    I think we let "worldliness" seep into the churches when we allow sin to go on virtually unnoticed. By sin, I mean a continual sinful (immoral) lifestyle. I was talking to a friend last night who comes from deep Missionary Baptist roots (I know, this may not be typical) where her brother (smoker and swindler) is the pastor and almost all the church is extended family. She and her family left the church last year, because of the legalism and openly sinful lifestyles of SS teachers and other church leadership. Yet they are holier than us SBCers down the road (and they preach this) because we are worldly by "attracting kids with pizza" and allowing the women to participate. Not to mention the pants that some women wear.

    So I think the definition of worldliness will vary greatly.

    Worldliness to me is trying to ride the fence. Partying on Sat night and giving lip service on Sunday morning. Allowing the ways of the world to conform us instead of the being transformed by the renewing of our minds.
     
  8. TaterTot

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    oh, let me tell ya...about sand castles.

    Years ago when we were directing a resort ministry, we did use sand castles. :) We made large sand sculptures and then colored them with food coloring and water in spray bottles. We would do things like a large 3-d turtle with a message around it "God is patient with us" or a large 3d rainbow with the phrase "God keeps His promises". Talk about drawing a crowd. People would come ask why we were doing that and there was the open door to share faith.

    Now I know some will say thats worldly - doing things done by the world to get to the world. I call it being relational and I would rather err on the side of at least having spurred folks on to thinking about spiritual matters.
     
  9. tinytim

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    So is being relational and being worldly the same... is it alright to make the Gospel message relative to the receivers or are we watering down the message?

    I too believe we need to be relational. I have used puppets, lockins, (aghast!!! even video game lockins) drama shows, Christian rock concerts, etc.

    So according to one of the defs above I would be considered "worldly". Even though we got the gospel message out, people were saved, AND DISCIPLED, and had fun doing it.

    I wonder what Christ will say when I stand in judgement....

    "Well Tim, x amount of people came to know me through your ministry, but you goofed up... You brought them to me the wrong way.... you know I sanctified southern gospel, and the old paths. How dare you tell my story using puppets!"

    I don't think so... I think Tater hit it on the head, I think it is straddling the fence... It is not what we do... it is who we are.

    We are either Godly, or worldly.
     
  10. Mexdeaf

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    Worldliness is about attitude, not about action.

    1 Peter 3:8-17

    Mex
     
  11. Lagardo

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    We take many things from the world in order to make our churches more accomodating and comfortable for believers and seekers alike. Does this make our church worldy? Before replying, keep in mind that what I am referring to would include the following:

    Air conditioning
    Microphones
    Nursery
    Padded pews
    Bulletins
    Buildings that provide shelter from weather
    Places to park our cars

    Are these things wordly because they are used in secular elements of our society as well? No. Worldliness, as nicely stated by a previous poster, is an attitude, not an action. To behave as though we do not know the truth of Christ, that is worldly.

    There is not one single church on this planet that could claim that no part of their church activites, or even their worship service does not include some element of their culture, ie. the world around them.
     
  12. 2BHizown

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    There is a way that seemeth right to a man, .........


    Scripture clearly teaches to Preach the Word. When the Word is preached then hearts are convicted of their sinfulness, they are humbled and God gifts some with the gift of faith and repentance! That is who He is. He saves sinners!
    When we do as instructed He will bring souls to Himself. We can not and should not try to get into the business to entice people to believe by extracurricular entertainment. Just the Word, the gospel, His truth, clear, straight and without compromise!
    We are His voice, His hands and feet! Do you really think He intends us to use all of the above mentioned ridiculous ways to bring people to church and then to entertain them to keep them there? Pitiful excuse for 'church'!!
     
  13. TaterTot

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    Paul quoted pagans to the pagans. He related to the world around him.
     
  14. Lagardo

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    What about the things you have listed excludes preaching the word?

    In Athens Paul pointed to pagan temples and began a discussion about them in order to gain his audience so that he might then preach the word. The use of those pagan temples didn't exclude preaching from his ministry.

    I do not see churches that consists of merely a man standing in a field preaching. At some point we seek to gain the attention of those who would hear the word. For some its as simple as a sign out front, others its a group of guys smashing concrete blocks with their foreheads.

    Many churches see what you call entertainment as a means to an end...the end being preaching the word.
     
  15. J.D.

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    I like both 2BHizown and Webdog's posts. I guess I would rather be in a church that has puppets but no gossip, but what I would really like is a church that has no puppets and no gossip!
     
  16. gekko

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    give me a break...
    ---

    10 signs of worldliness.

    if people continue in these next ten things - they are worldly - if they dpmt hate sin. it is worldly.

    1. not putting God first
    2. idolatry
    3. taking the Lord's name in vain
    4. not remembering the sabbath to keep it holy
    5. not honoring father or mother
    6. murder
    7. adultery
    8. theft
    9. false witness
    10. coveting

    if people are continuing in this and not turning away from it - if they are not new - and the old is showing.

    then it is worldly.

    worldliness is more spiritual then physical.
    got to look at God's standards.
     
  17. tinytim

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    Could it be that our personal likes and dislikes defines what is entertainment and what is not?

    There is a place for entertainment and in a worship service is not it...
    But I worship with CCM as well as hymns.
    I worship if a preacher preaches, as well as i can if a talented ventriloquist gives the message. (not that I've ever heard one do it, but theres a thought...)
     
  18. guitarpreacher

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    I've seen lots of puppets and lots of preachers. In almost every case the puppets are smarter, more likeable, better looking and more effective communicators :tongue3:
     
  19. webdog

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    BINGO!!

    One thing I can't understand is the attitude that entertainment is to be separate from worship. Where is it written that worshipping God is the opposite of entertaining? I love going to church...singing...fellowshipping...praying and studying the Bible. Watching God use others' gifts to bring glory to Him is entertaining! To hear a person who has the ability to play instruments for the glory of the Lord is entertaining! To see a drama that touches the lost, or the hurting, and the prepartation and love of God that goes into it is entertaining! The whole experience of worshipping the Lord IS entertaining! If I find myself enjoying the presence of the Lord, do I stop worshipping?
     
    #19 webdog, Jul 31, 2006
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  20. rbell

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    The early church "broke bread" together and shared everything. I'm sure they never did anything that was enjoyable though...God's against enjoying stuff...having any fun would be worldly. :rolleyes:
     

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