Would the founders have left God out of the Constitution...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by fromtheright, Sep 21, 2005.

  1. fromtheright

    fromtheright
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    ...if they had any inkling that this country would have gone so far from God?

    A question posed by buckster in our [just closed :( ; no complaint on the closing rule, though] thread on "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance.

    IMO, I think they would have still have left God out. They so feared a national religious establishment they would not have risked it. They were very conscious of the need for a virtuous citizenry and were even then anxious about losing that, anxious enough that I believe that if they had seen a place for God in a Federal Constitution they would likely have done it. Many of them complained about England's vices yet they knew that England had a national church. They knew that the institutions both best suited and critical for teaching religion were the home and the church, and that to the extent the government should be mixed it should only be at the state level; even many state religious establishments were fading.
     
  2. El_Guero

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    I don't know that they "left God out". In their culture, God was understood. Come to think of it, God was understood just 40 to 50 years ago ...
     
  3. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
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    Agreed.
    I rather like the idea of a secular government, which is why the Dominionists bother me. I am rather partial to the government staying out of my church, and uninterested in how I serve the Almighty.

    Contrary to the comments made by some among us, a few of the forefathers were not particularly religious. As a matter of fact, some of them were even Masons. :eek:

    Regards, FTR, I trust that you and yours are doing well,
    BiR
     
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I agree 100%. After the English experience of warring between Catholic and Anglican monarchs I think the purposefully chose to leave God out of the Constitution.
     
  5. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
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    That's right: FREE NORTHERN IRELAND!!!!
    [​IMG]

    Keep those newsletters coming, C4K,
    BiR
     
  6. OCC

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    I agree. Religious instruction should be in the home and the church.

    I don't believe God cares if a nation gives Him lip service. I learned tonight from Isaiah 40 what God thinks of nations.
     
  7. fromtheright

    fromtheright
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    Though I think they would have left Him out, I do wish they had perhaps added something like lines from Washington's Farewell Address like

    Hi, BiR, it's great to hear from you! All is well here and I hope in Virginia.

    I agree with you on the Dominionists. For all the theocratic boogeyman rhetoric that many pour on Falwell and Robertson, Rushdoony's crowd makes them look like ACLU lawyers.
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I must say the I admire the framers of our constitution more than I can explain. They showed incredible wisdom and teamwork considering the disparity of their views. They were not perfect, there were things like spavery that they should have dealt with.

    When it comes to God and religion they were bang on, IMHO. They knew the result of mixing God and politics from England and the rest of Europe. Thet knew the divisive nature of "religion." In the first amendment they guarenteed religious liberty and diversity.

    I think they handled the "God issue" perfectly. Religion is a matter of the heart and soul, not one that should be subject to legislation.
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

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    They did deal with it. They made it legal.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. fromtheright

    fromtheright
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    Joe,

    It was already legal. As statesmen they did the best they could in the hopes of forging a nation. George Mason in the Federal Convention was right that we paid for the national sin of slavery with the national calamity of a Civil War. Had they not compromised, though, we would have had two weak and opposing nations, exposed to European intrigues and threats and we might not have made it until 1865.

    I absolutely agree with C4K,

    Jefferson was right--the Framers were an assembly of demi-gods.
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

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    If God had truly blessed America and it wasn't just a hollow slogan, then we would have made it. I know that nobody is perfect, and that is certainly part of my post. I get real tired of listening to folks go on about the founders and the Constitution as if they were Apostles and the Bible respectively. They were, in the end, totally depraved men who wrote a document which was good in theory, but didn't truly come to fruition for everyone until much later after many revisions. Even today, the unborn are not guaranteed the civil rights of the Constitution. What I am saying is that maybe the founders weren't as great as we all make them out to be sometimes.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  12. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I didn't say they were not flawed. I say I admire them and their work. Who would have dreamed that the murder of an unborn child could ever be rationalised. They were not perfect, but on the issue of God in the Constitution they made the absolutely correct decision in leaving Him or any reference to Him out of the equation.
     
  13. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I don't know where we get this idea that 18th century Europeans and Americans had some kind of understanding of God about them. These folks were greatly influenced by the French philosophes who had made reason their god and English writers who used morality in the place of God. Our American forefathers almost elevated liberty to godhood status. Look at the statuary and architecture of the time. The goddesses Liberty, Freedom, and Justice stood side by side with Moses, Plato, and others.

    This is precisely why God was left out of the Constitution.
     
  14. Magnetic Poles

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    I don't know where we get this idea that 18th century Europeans and Americans had some kind of understanding of God about them. These folks were greatly influenced by the French philosophes who had made reason their god and English writers who used morality in the place of God. Our American forefathers almost elevated liberty to godhood status. Look at the statuary and architecture of the time. The goddesses Liberty, Freedom, and Justice stood side by side with Moses, Plato, and others.

    This is precisely why God was left out of the Constitution.
    </font>[/QUOTE]C4K, that is correct. Actually the founding fathers were influenced by the thinking and reasoning of the Enlightenment rather than founding a nation on Christianity. The revisionists don't like it, but the ideals of the American revolution came directly from Enlightenment Period thinking.
     
  15. Aaron

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    The Constitution was not designed for irreligious people.

    I would venture to say that God is as absent from the Constitution as He is from the Book of Esther or the Song of Solomon--only in the sense of direct mention.
     
  16. Aaron

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    Really? Which Philosophers of the Enlightenment were cited in their deliberations?

     
  17. OCC

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    And look what happened in Calvin's "religious state".

    C4K makes some sense but I'd have to ask...were those English writers persecuted just as the Puritans were? If they thought the same, they would each be persecuted.

    I don't claim to know whether those founding fathers were Christians or not and it doesn't really matter. What matters is what they intended the Constitution to be and what they intended the country to be. I believe they intended it to be a country of religious liberty for ALL...not just for Christians to be Christians.
     
  18. buckster75

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    this is part of what I am talking about. I think the belief of the men writing the const. would have thought of life as God given and did someting more to protect such as this if they thought the country would ever go this far.
     
  19. buckster75

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    James someone gave a run down on the religious assoc. of some of these men . I think it was John.what I remember was most were members of christian churches. (correct me if I am wrong John---I know you will.) P.S And it is appreciated.
     
  20. OCC

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    Yeah I saw the rundown. But can I trust it? I don't know...I can't see how they would violate their own principle. Didn't they leave England to escape religious tyranny? How then, could they turn around and do it themselves...instead of just allowing everyone to have religious freedom?
     

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