Would this be stealing a Pastor?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Milhous, Jul 14, 2009.

  1. Milhous

    Milhous
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    Recently the pastor, of the SBC church I'm a member of, was approached by members of another SBC in the association. They asked if he would be interested in becoming their pastor. This happened in the first of June, members of the church visited in mid June. A trial sermon was set up for July 5th. Our pastor is currently on vacation, will preach again on July 26th, resign and take his new position on August 2nd. He has been with us for 2 years as pastor and served for 6 months as interim before being hired.

    Our church is small, about 30-35 attendance and the position is bi-vocational. The new church averages 80-100 and is bi-vocational also.

    I am disappointed in the other church and the pastor concerning this matter. Does not appear to be handled in a Biblical manner. Am I wrong to be angry or should I accept this is as God's will and let go? There have been no problems that I am aware of (and I'm involved significantly in church matters). We have experienced spiritual growth, but not the numeric growth some strive for.
     
  2. donnA

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    What is the biblical manner for a pastor to leave one church and go to another one?
     
  3. gb93433

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    Was your pastor looking?

    If you talk with old pastors that was not common, but if you talk with people today it is very common.

    Too many churches and pastors have bought into the success syndrome. Too many churches think that if only they get a good preacher then it will increase the nickels and noses and too many pastors are climbing the ladder.

    The quickest way for a pastor to get an increase in salary is to change churches.
     
  4. Pastor Larry

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    That's typically the way it works. We don't have enough info to pass the judgment that GB passed. But point of fact, most churches get pastors from other churches, and they approach them, ask if they are interested, have an interviewing/candidating process, and a vote.

    There's nothign wrong with what they did, per se.

    But again, not enough info to say much here.
     
  5. Tom Bryant

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    I agree that this was a little strange. But I don't know of any Biblical guidelines about a pastor leaving and going to another church.

    To intimate that this was an illustration of a pastor buying into the success syndrome begins to judge motives which only God knows.

    As far as accepting this as God's will, it certainly didn't catch God by surprise. Trust Him! If the pastor or other church is in the wrong, God will bless you for a right attitude and desire to follow God's will into a wonderful future of ministry for your church.
     
  6. gb93433

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    If you noticed that is the reason why I made statements and asked questions. I have spoken with enough pastors and seen the manipulation to know that not everything is always as it seems. So there needs to be some questions asked. The fact remains that the pastor is moving on whether it is right or wrong.

    If it is not preceeded by the Holy Spirit and prayer then there is a lot wrong with that.

    If you will talk with elderly pastors you will find out that it was typical to have spent much time in prayer by congregations before they talked with any other pastor about coming to their church. Today there are many more pastor dismissals.

    A pastor friend of mine had pastor search committees visiting the church he was pastoring at the time many times a year. Tell me how that is of God? I remember once when he told me that one of the search committee members told him that they believed God wanted him to come to their church. His response was that God had not told him that. Since God is one how can someone divide God into two?

    On one occasion I had a pastor search committee come to the church I was pastoring without ever talking with me first. I made it clear to the church in the sermon that I had no intention of leaving. Frankly I was angry at them because I was faced with questions afterward from people in the congregation.

    If you take a look at various Baptist conventions/organizations there is a huge difference in the average tenure of a pastor. Why?
     
    #6 gb93433, Jul 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2009
  7. gb93433

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    I think there are biblical guidelines in that all involved must be led of God instead of their own ways. When the Holy Spirit leads the way it is clear that God opened the door and no man will shut it.
     
  8. sag38

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    gb, not every one is on the same high spiritual plane as you are to judge this pastor. I would not dare to judge this pastor based on the posting of one person. Could it be that the church called, he prayed and felt God's leading, and left to go to the other church? Simple!!
     
  9. gb93433

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    Where did I ever write "the pastor . . ."? Do you know the difference between an indefinite article and a definite article?
     
  10. sag38

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    Us pions don't know grammar like your highness does.
     
  11. gb93433

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    Just read the statements and questions for what they literally state instead of reading into them and making assumptions.
     
  12. rbell

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    Simply not enough info in this post to say if it was done rightly or not.

    It will almost always be ticklish if a pastor moves from one church to another, and they are not far apart geographically.

    So...even though this is on very limited info...I think we have to trust that God is leading the pastor where he should go, and leave it at that. Obviously, there are cases...out-and-out lying, or leaving a church just before being discovered in a moral failure, etc...that would be problematic.

    But IMO (and once again, I'm operating somewhat in the blind), being upset about this move won't help you or the church...and we must allow for priesthood of the believer.

    The wild card is, of course, your phrase:

    Is this a procedural problem you have with things (timing, openness, etc.), or something more substantial? If it is the first, let it go. The second....well, depends on what it is. ​
     
  13. Jim1999

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    First, all my churches came by invite whilst I was still pastoring the first church. In my day we "preached for a call". This is what it was called when we were invited to another church and then that church decided which man they wanted. I refused to do that. I insisted that either I was wanted or not. The one church where I sought the pulpit, didn't work out and after a few months I left ministry for four years.

    We accept a ministry and we have our own goals for that church. Sometimes after about 4 years, we are impressed with the thought that we have accomplished our goal at that church and reached a dead end. It is seldom for money, and numbers do not always impress. I went from one church that paid me $50.00 a week to one that paid me $10.00. The money meant nothing.

    I think it is important to leave a church informed and in good fellowship, and not just to up and leave to serve another.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  14. dh1948

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    I would accept it as part of God's plan for both churches and the pastor in question. Get over it.

    GB, brother, I have read most of your posts in recent days. Do I detect a holier-than-thou spirit? Are you hard-nosed, opinionated, and critical most of the time? Are you an angry person? I hope your answers are all 'no's". I know it is hard to discern the emotions of a person from words on a page. Maybe what I perceive as a critical spirit is just my misconception.

    Anyway, I am not trying to start a verbal war with you. I just feel uneasy with the tenor of some of your writings.
     
  15. rbell

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    I've noticed that the OP was from West Alabama...so there is one issue that does come to mind:

    It is entirely possible that this pastor discovered another church whose ladies had better cornbread.







    :D
     
  16. sag38

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    No, the new church has more Auburn fans or Alabama fans in addition to making better cornbread.
     
  17. donnA

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    I think your right, but from the op we have no way of knowing if anyone or all were lead by God. Or if the pastor was was looking to begin with.
    But fact is as stated, this is where most pastors come from, other Churches. Not many churches are going to be permanent. God has the option of using a man in one church and then another, moving him wherever He wants them.
    Oh, by the way, our pastor took a significant cut in pay when he came to our church, from another church.
     
  18. Tom Butler

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    No church can steal a pastor who doesn't want to be stolen.
     
  19. gb93433

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    Actually I am quite the opposite in real life and in the way I live. People know me as a person who has lots of energy and a man of integrity. I have a lot of fun in life. My goal is to be like Christ. I believe that Christ did not have many good things to say about the religious establishment. I believe we have a lot of religious establishments that are busy patting themselves on the back about how good they are when in reality they are already dead or dying. When 2/3 of the churches in America are dead or dying what good does it do to point fingers at the world and point out their wrongs. What good does it do to label others as liberals, etc. and point fingers at the world blaming the world's problems on them. All the world has to do is to read or listen to the news to find out how good some Christians and churches are. It reminds me of the time a young man was complaining to me about his church and I asked him to tell me about those who were living for Jesus Christ because of his life. He could not name one person. He did have enough humility to quit complaining and ask for help.

    I engage non-Christians all the time. I am not afraid of what they might say to me or about me. What bothers me a lot is when Christians sit in their holy huddle and point fingers at the world acting as though the problem is in the world. A little humility would tell us that there are lots of problems in churches and in our own lives. We have no business pointing our finger at the world we are trying to win to Christ. When we label others as liberals and point fingers while we have problems in our own churches we have problems we need to solve first. That would be like me telling someone how to solve the problems in their marriage when I cannot lead my own home.

    I do come across tough and hard to those who enjoy picking on others. I have almost no tolerance for a bully.

    By the time I was 16 I quit going to church because I did not like what I saw in terms of religious nonsense in the church. It wasn't until I met a real Christian in college that I listened to him and received Christ. I grew up in a non-Christian home and my parents talked about some of the comments they heard over the years from Baptists. I hear some of those same comments on BB and have no question about how effective they are. It makes me wonder how much they share their faith with those they make bad remarks about. I know how effective it was with my parents. They remember them today. Many times I have had to steer the conversation away from being a Baptist to being a Christian.
     
  20. gb93433

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    That reminds of the story of a pastor who was loading his belongings to pastor another church. While he was packing and had almost everything done he was gripped by the love the people had for him at the church he was going to leave. As a result he decided to stay and pastored that church for the rest of his life.
     

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