Would you allow this man to address your congregation?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by agedman, Sep 15, 2015.

  1. agedman

    agedman
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    Bernie Sanders

    Some will respond that this is a university and not a church.

    However, some will discern that the university is an extension of the church and wholly responsible to the church. That it proclaims to be a place for Spiritual development of the students as well as academic.

    So, would you?
     
  2. wpe3bql

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    I probably would do so, but only in a university setting rather than "preaching his socialist gospel from the pulpit."

    I realize that Liberty University has apparently undergone some rather dramatic changes in its style of public worship compared to what it was like when Jerry Falwell was its leader.

    While I'm not necessarily "anti-change" over some matters, some people will throw a fit if they hear that a church or school has ever changed anything at all compared to what it was like 50-60 years ago. I'm not that way too much, and even I get flak sometimes for remaining in a church where I've been a member for 20+ years because it no longer has a choir and no more hymnals in the pew. Worst of all, the pastors no longer preach solely from the KJV.

    When I ask these critics to show me an example of how our church has departed from its Statement of Faith on Bible Truths, I get no valid response. IOW, all they ever really say is either that it's just not the same since our founding pastor began preaching in his coat and tie back some 40 years ago.

    They seem to forget that our founding pastor voluntarily stepped down from being our senior pastor some half dozen years ago do to medical and physical issues (He was diagnosed with a form of Parkinson's disease.) to pursue a different style of ministry of overseeing an umbrella foundation whose primary mission is to coordinate various domestic and foreign mission outreaches in which our church had an integral part in either forming or assisting over these 40 years of our existence.

    This is a calling that takes him away somewhat from the 24/7/365 pressures of being a pastor of a medium-sized church that sponsors a pre K age 2 on up to 12th grade Christian day school and one that has at least 3 other congregations of foreign language ministries than go on simultaneously with our own English language corporate worship service + a children's church from ages 4 up to the 3rd grade level.

    As only a layman, I don't see that there's anything inherently wrong with some things a local church does differently than she did some 40 years ago. As I once heard, "As long as the MESSAGE doesn't change, the way it should be delivered shouldn't matter that much."

    Anyway, if I'm not mistaken, even Jerry Falwell himself was condemned for doing such things as dropping "Baptist" from Liberty University's name, and sometimes he'd also invite speakers to speak at the University who weren't exactly ultra-fundamental born-again Bible thumping conservative Republicans .

    Was he therefore a heretic for having them speak to Liberty's students back then? I suppose some people would say he was, but coming from a person who probably saw some minor methodologies in a little differently from "Bro. Jerry's" way of doing things, I don't see the entire Liberty University's student body becoming idolizing fans of Sanders simply because he'll speak to them.

    I'm reminded that a lot of people supported a divorced movie star for president some 35 years ago. Yes he was a divorced man who was friends with non-conservative entertainers like Frank Sinatra and who was a union president some 65 years ago who had a wife who occasionally went to see an occult fortune teller. But OTOH, I (who never voted for the GOP's candidate for president before or since) liked him as president.

    There's a difference between a person's preferences and a person's convictions. Unfortunately some people tend to make their own personal preferences into convictions and impose them on everyone they meet or else to them "It's my way or the highway to you!" :BangHead: :tear:
     
  3. go2church

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    No politicking from the pulpit, doesn't matter the party.

    A school should be open to such things.
     
  4. preachinjesus

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    As a Liberty alum, I'm sad by many of the changes that the new leadership has brought. Be sure, there are amazing things happening at the school. However, the current chancellor, Jerry Jr, doesn't have the same gifting or spiritual leadership ability of his father.

    Beck was bad enough, but Sanders sat on the platform and proclaimed things that are opposition to a Christian worldview. And no one challenged him.

    The school can say whatever it wants: this was the first time a staunchly, radically, pro-abortionist has been allowed on the convocation platform to proclaim his unfettering support for that position. It is difficult to stomach.

    Liberty has had pro-choice Democrats speak in the past, but they've always been outside the convocation assembly.

    I'm not sure how an assembly of Christians where praise and worship music starts off the time, and prayers to God are offered, isn't a chapel service.
     
  5. agedman

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    I wonder if some would view the invitation and visit as a slap in the face of what the university stood for during the "moral majority" days?

    Sanders is not just a politician, but is an avowed socialist and abortionist.

    He is everything Jerry F. stood against, but not apparently the thinking of Jr.

    To WELCOME him on campus would be repugnant, but to allow him access to speak without rebuke to the students is .... heartbreaking.

    If I were an alum. I would contact other alum and start a grass root move to expel the leadership and establish some proper guidelines.
     
  6. Salty

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    Was this actually a chapel service or a special event?

    The video only showed the speech. I would have liked to have seen the Q&A

    In addition, the students could have "booed" Sanders, but apparently they have enough manners to realize that is inappropriate.
     
  7. InTheLight

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    I would not allow this man to speak to my church congregation (I am not a pastor, but my answer reflects how the OP question was phrased.)

    I understand that universities are places where all sorts of ideas are considered and tested but I would not actively seek this man out to speak to my students (if I were an administrator.) If I were an administrator of a secular university and he requested to speak I would likely allow it. If I were an administrator of a Christian college I would seriously consider the request but I would diplomatically decline.
     
  8. Salty

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    Speak from my pulpit for a Sunday Service - would not happen

    Speak at a Christian college - not a problem -
    but I would want the audience to be students/faculty only.
    No "plants"
    Would have to have a good one- hour Q&A

    could be more - but give me time.
     
  9. John of Japan

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    Absolutely would not have him.

    As to whether Jerry Sr. would have had Bernie, remember that's the man who had pornographer Larry Flynt and Teddy Kennedy (tons of liberal baggage) speak in chapel (correct me if I'm wrong). So why would he not have had Bernie in?
     
  10. Jerome

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    Liberty University - Spiritual Programs - Convocation FAQs

     
  11. Jerome

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    Falwell and Flynt became friends, but I don't think he ever spoke at LU.

    Video of Ted Kennedy at Liberty Baptist College:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa-ZDJ5WyX4

    Transcript:

    http://tedkennedy.org/ownwords/event/liberty_college
     
  12. wpe3bql

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    I wonder if both Falwell Senior and Junior paid for having such liberal loonies as they have done (and probably will continue to do so?

    Maybe the next liberal loonies will be Hillary Clinton or VPOTUS Joe Biden?

    I know that Liberty University is supposed to be a "private" university, but even so-called "private" universities ought to at least be accountable to someone outside what some have called the "Lynchburg Mafia."

    Aren't the ones who've made very generous financial gifts or endowments to Liberty to keep what was once a fairly solid fundamental school owed at least an audit of its income sources and expenses by some disinterested third party accounting firm?

    I've taken a couple of distance learning classes at Liberty. While the academics were good, I just wonder how biblically-based their fundraising efforts and the outside speakers that they have had speak on campus in the past (and probably in the future) are.

    After all some of these rather notorious political talking heads demand a rather hefty up front speakers fee before they'll speak at other secular venues.

    I doubt seriously that these same jokers aren't going to speak at Liberty for free.
     
  13. John of Japan

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    My memory is telling me he did, but then it's an old memory, getting older. You're probably right. :flower:
     
  14. preachinjesus

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    I know for a fact that the Ted Kennedy part is wrong. This has been the party line from the administration, but the fact is Senator Kennedy did address the Liberty community but did so at special evening events outside convocation.

    Jesse Jackson is an ordained minister so I don't know why he would be disqualified. Donald Trump came after Dr Falwell (Sr) had passed away. The others are acceptable.

    What many of us are saying is that this kind of speaker was never acceptable before Dr Falwell (Sr) passed away. Glenn Beck was never acceptable before his passing. Donald Trump was never acceptable. And the list goes on.

    The sad truth is that the current chancellor, Jerry Jr, is more interested in politics than discerned ministry preparation. This is crippling the school at its most critical point, the spiritual formation time. We need better leadership in this way.

    I'm all for having Senator Sanders at Liberty. Just not in chapel services.
     
  15. preachinjesus

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    It was the three times a week chapel service that they call convocation. Residential undergraduate students are required to attend. The usual course of events is a time of worship, some announcements, and a speaker. They've done this since the school started.
     
  16. Salty

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    I agree with you 100%
     
  17. rsr

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    What. specifically, did Sanders say that was anti-Christian? Or does anti-capitalist equate with anti-Christian? Just curious.
     
  18. Reformed

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    A local church is unique. A university is not an extension of a church.

    That said, why would I allow a rank unbeliever to address my congregation?
     
  19. Salty

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    Lets start with the fact he is pro-abortion....
     
  20. agedman

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    From my understanding LU is an extension and directly responsible as an integral partners with TRBC. The relationship between the two and ministry efforts have been purposely blended from the start.

    This is a quote that tells a bit about the intent of the founder and results:
    "Even as Liberty became Falwell, Sr.’s primary focus during the last 17 years of his life, Chancellor Falwell said, he never stopped being a pastor at TRBC and it was his goal that TRBC and LU would always remain connected; moving the church next door to Liberty in 2006 was a key part of that plan. And all the while his father juggled both roles — days, nights and weekends.
    But after his death in May 2007, “neither my brother nor I had any desire to keep up that pace. God had called Jonathan to be a pastor and had prepared me for the role I am serving here,” Chancellor Falwell said.
    Through this transition, “The relationship between TRBC and LU has remained strong,” he added. “TRBC continues to provide ministry opportunities for LU students and LU sponsors TRBC's television outreach and provides financial support for TRBC church planting efforts.”
    How then can a Baptist Church hold fellowship with a university that invites a person such as Sanders?

    Merely stating that a church is not a university is not correct.

    The church and the university are to do the same job; Train believers to the Glory of God.

    Bernie Sanders is certainly in no stretch of even imagination someone to train believers to the Glory of God.

    The church does not need to hear from the World, and neither do the students. They have plenty in which to compare and contrast without lifting someone up upon the platform and requiring them to listen.

    There is no fellowship between that which is darkness and that which is light. Nor should there be.
     

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