Would you do it?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Gina B, Jun 18, 2003.

  1. Gina B

    Gina B
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    Let me put out a hypothetical situation.
    An abortion center is opening in your area.
    You are pro-life and do not want this center operating, but it will be operating despite the best you can do.
    Would you attempt to work in the center in order to find out and later expose possibly illegal actions in order to shut them down?
    Or would you think it better to go about in your attempt by other means that would in all reality not have much impact on the center?
    Gina
     
  2. stubbornkelly

    stubbornkelly
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    Well, what's that we say? It's never right to do wrong to do right? Depends on your take on that, on whether or not you rank wrongdoing (i.e. abortion is worse than my lying, so therefore it's okay to lie in order to stop abortions).

    Personally, I think to do the former would be unethical. It's deception. The deception would ruin one's witness, and again, it depends on whether it's more important to you to be a good witness for Christ or to stop the abortions in that manner. Given the scenario, I don't think there's a way to do both.
     
  3. Gina B

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    Try another situation Kelly.
    There is an anti-gay group setting up offices in town. You are very much into gay rights. This group is known to harass, preach at, bully, and in some instances even harm gay members in the towns they are in.
    Would you fake an anti-homosexual stance in order to get inside and be able to provide information to the gay members of the community that will be targeted?
    Gina
     
  4. hsmom3

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    Gina, the first thing that comes to my mind is the verse that says to overcome evil with good, like helping these pregnant ladies somehow (financially, etc). Then again, I compare this to the Holocaust. People had to be deceptive to save lives. I think it would be better to work at the clinic, not with the intent to shut them down, but with the intent to try to persuade women to choose life. I think coming from another angle and reaching the women through crisis pregnancy centers would be a better option. [​IMG]

    hsmom3
     
  5. dianetavegia

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    NEVER because it would be the appearance of evil and my testimony would be ruined. I would do all that I could to stop te center from opening and the to reach those who might go there. Birthright is a wonderful organization found in many areas. They help pregnant women with funding and support but no abortion.

    Diane
     
  6. Headcoveredlady

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    Diane,
    I agree that supporting Birthright and our local crisis pregnancy center is a wonderful way to combat abortion. They always need counselors and donations of baby items and money.
     
  7. Dr. Bob

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    Had this beaten into my worldly brain as a teen and young adult in college, and still would affect every decision (like this) I face:
     
  8. Ben W

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    On Michael Moore's show the Awful truth, they showed people blowing them up while they were closed and nobody was inside. Apparently this caused so many insurance claims that some clinics were unable to get insurance in order to operate and were shut down.

    Yet this is illeagal and has a potential to harm somebody.

    Martin Luther King got what he was after by non violent protesting, maybe there is some merit in that?
     
  9. blackbird

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    Gina--Elijah prayed and the heavens were shut up for three and a half years--no rain for three and a half years until the prophet gave the "say so!"---no need to deceive and lie---just keep tellin' the truth and fall down on your knees when the time comes to "shut up the rain!"

    Brother David
     
  10. Artimaeus

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    I agree that it is never right to do wrong. So, could someone explain to me why it was right for Rahab to do wrong (lie) in Josh 2 (See also Josh 6:17; Heb 11:31; and James 2:25)? I mean she made it into the Faith Hall of Fame by lying through her teeth. :confused:
     
  11. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Good question Art! I do not have the answer, but it will be interesting to see who does. [​IMG]
     
  12. aefting

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    I'm probably going to regret answering this question because it tends to go against the grain of most Christians I meet. Nevertheless, here's my thinking. I could be wrong....

    What if in the Rahab story the Scripture said, "And Rahab rose up against the men of the city and slew them." What if Rahab killed them instead of lying to them? Would you say that Rahab was wrong then? There are lots of stories in the Judges, for example, where that same thing happened. My view is that Rahab, as a de facto member of the Israelite army/faith, would have been justified in killing those men. After all, the Israelites eventually destroyed the entire city.

    So where am I going with this? In time of war, killing, deception, etc, are perfectly righteous. I don't believe Rahab did anything wrong.

    You will remember that God instructed Joshua to use deception in the eventual defeat of Ai (Jos. 8).

    Andy
     
  13. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    So it is all right to lie in a time of war? Well, why is everyone who thinks Irag is an 'unjust war' talking about the President supposedly lying then?
     
  14. aefting

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    OK, let me clarify what I was saying. I was refering to lying, killing, etc as an act of war. In other words, killing the enemy and deceiving the enemey are both acceptable.

    Bush "lying" to the American people, if he did that and I dont' beleive he did, would be wrong.

    Andy
     
  15. Madelyn Hope

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    I don't know exactly what type of actions that you would list under the "illegal activities" to get the clinic shut down. I would strongly caution anyone from choosing to work within a clinic with the intent to reveal any information learned within. When you choose to work in a healthcare environment, you are being trusted with details of the patients' intimate lives and are accountable to maintain patient confidentiality. While in strictest terms, the principle of confidentiality applies to the doctor-patient relationship, ethically, I believe that it should extend to each member of the clinic who participates in patient care from the nurses to lab techs to office workers dealing with insurance/appointment info.

    If a patient were to learn that a clinic had been "invaded" by a scout from an organization, the patient's confidence in the clinic is shaken and he/she no longer feel that they can share information with their health care provider. Patients need to feel secure in discussing their health, particularly in terms of sexual issues, mental health issues, and issues surrounding substance abuse.
     
  16. Pastor Larry

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    You would have to refresh my memory as to where the Bible says she was right to do this. Furthermore, to my knowledge her listing in Heb 11 is not attributed to her lying. The Bible merely records that she did do it, not that she was right to do it. What is attributed to her in those passages is her hiding of the spies, not her lying about them. There was perhaps other ways that she could have carried that out successfully.
     
  17. stubbornkelly

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    No. I would not.
     
  18. Gina B

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    Why not Kelly? Why would it be wrong? Isn't it just a moral decision you should be able to make on your own?
    Gina
     
  19. Johnv

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    There's a family plannig clinic in my area. I don't pay it any attention. However, what I must do is avoid it some weekends, because protestors often line the sidewalks with gruesome photos of late term fetuses in trash cans, and the like. Since I don't want my children exposed to these photos, I must avoid that stretch of road on Saturday mornings.
     
  20. Gina B

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    I try to avoid taking my children around the one out here too.
    Doesn't feel safe with all the murderers walking freely about.
    Gina
     

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