would you feel safer..........

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Ps104_33, Dec 3, 2004.

  1. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    Would you, as an American citizen, feel safer if we pulled our troops out of Iraq and amassed them along our borders?
     
  2. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    No. Isolationism was a failed experiment. With the advent of longrange missiles, we can't afford to not be active in the world.
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with Daniel.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    The choice given is one or the other and can not be justly answered in that manner!

    We need to finish the just war in Iraq and we are making steady progress towards that goal. It is a military operation. It is a war.

    We also need to better secure our boarders against illegal immigration. It is a law enforcement operation. It is very difficult because of the numbers involved.

    We can not protect our nation against terrorism by shrinking our military protection to its boarders. We must go after the threats wherever they are.

    We do need to enforce our immigration laws else they are useless. Many people have immigrated to this country legally, benefited from it, and added much to it. It is wrong to permit others to enter illegally, take from it, and add nothing to it.

    However, we must not view immigrants in the same light as terrorists. They are not the same thing! Immigrants come here for better opportunity and, if legally admitted, should be welcomed. Else many of us are descendants - or perhaps even more closely related - to terrorists.

    Patrick
     
  5. rivers1222

    rivers1222
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    0
    No. And it wouldnt solve anything if we could. Can you imagine putting the 82nd Airborne and 1st Marine Divisions on the border from Texas to T.J. and then telling them "Good luck guys, but dont hurt anybody. And remember, no abuse and no racial profiling."
    I'm sorry, but if you want to beef up the border then beef up the Border Patrol. And then let them do their jobs. Our soldiers and Marines are not cops. They are trained to take land and kill people.
    I'm sorry if I sound synical. But like Yogi Berra once said, Its like deja vu all over again.
     
  6. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yes. After the war in Iraq and in Afghanistan, US troops should be redeployed to the US mainland, Hawaii, and all US territories. We ought to rebuild Nuclear Defense capabilities again.

    Meantime, overseas intelligence efforts should be made better and stronger.
     
  7. North Carolina Tentmaker

    North Carolina Tentmaker
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, of course not. We should strengthen our borders, but we also need to go get the terrorists wherever they are. I feel much safer with Marines killing them in Fulujah than I would if they were killing them in Texas.

    Iraq is a messy dangerous place but I for one appreciate the sacrifices our men and women are making by being there. Anyone who can’t see that they are making our world and country safer has blinders on.
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes. After the war in Iraq and in Afghanistan, US troops should be redeployed to the US mainland, Hawaii, and all US territories. We ought to rebuild Nuclear Defense capabilities again.

    Meantime, overseas intelligence efforts should be made better and stronger.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I can agree with you there.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  9. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Aren't you folks happy Osama hasn't got the brains to send about 100 terrorists a day accross the Rio Grande? I know you all may poo poo my question but if it started, you all would change your tune just like you have on your superhero worship of Bush, (who by the way is proving himself to be a wolf in sheep's clothing). You folks like to pipe the tune of the day and change it as the circumstances arise. What would you all be saying if Dallas was taken off the map because about 50 soldiers of the Sahara walked in somewhere next to Roma, Tx?
    Thanks ------Bart (now my vote counts because it wasn't for Bush or Kerry)
     
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
  11. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, I would. I would also be safer.
     
  12. AVL1984

    AVL1984
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    6,932
    Likes Received:
    3
    Amassing our soldiers along our borders would not necessarily make us safer. It would isolate us from the rest of the world. Border patrols should be increased, of course, but our troops need to be finishing what was started in Iraq and elsewhere.
     
  13. The Galatian

    The Galatian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2001
    Messages:
    9,687
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would feel safer if we hadn't made Iraq a staging area for terrorists.

    I would feel safer if we spent our efforts on getting Bin Laden, and not on setting up a socialized medical care system for Iraqis.
     
  14. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am a political isolationist but an economic internationalist. Except for the cost of keeping the sea lanes open, let business accept the risk and profit of international trade.
     
  15. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    Nope, it's not up to our troops to do the border patrols work. I thought it was the militaries role to protect America's soil and people and not American and global corporate business interests around the world.
     
  16. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    America's military is very busy protecting American interests (yours and mine) around the world and especially in the matter of proactively dealing with terrorism. What they're doing is protecting our land, our people, and our culture. Let's not diminish their service to our nation!

    American business interests are also our interests and it is not evil to desire they be protected as well. American business own the jobs for which we have the skills to perform. American business (including the owners, operators, employees, and regulators) provide the goods and services we all use.

    Land, commerce, etc. have been factors in many wars including our own revolution. No, the war in Iraq is not about oil, but rest assured if a nation or group of nations cut off our supply of oil to such extent that it caused great harm - not just higher prices - it could very well be considered an act of war just as would a blockade or some other interference with trade that might bring about harm to our nation.

    We have absolutely no reason to be ashamed of what we're doing in Iraq or any where else in the world. We need not give credibility to the attacks upon our integrity by buying into any of the evil conspiracy theories out there.

    We are not being invaded by Mexico or terrorists from Mexico. Comparing Iraq and Mexico or terrorism and illegal immigration is not comparing equal agendas. There is a real and significant problem with illegal immigration from Mexico but, right now, that is a law enforcement matter and not an appropriate place for the use of our military forces in other than some selected specialized support such as is now routinely done.

    There are many aspects to the problem begging solutions: Our border patrol does not have enough resources, it's a very long boarder with many holes in it, we've gotten use to utilizing cheap labor from Mexico, we don't have full cooperation between all government agencies in the matter of illegal immigration, Mexico does not offer the kinds of opportunity we have here, etc. The problem has grown over many years and it will take some time and effort - and tax money - to fix it. The best long term solution is a better economy in Mexico such that the incentive to flee to America is less attractive.

    This problem isn't the fault of any particular political party. This problem isn't an excuse to equate all immigrants with illegal immigrants or with criminals or with terrorists. It isn't legitimate to imply that we shouldn't be doing what we're doing in Iraq because we have this problem.

    Patrick
     
  17. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    Apparently you haven't read "The Grand Chessboard" or the "Unauthorized Biography Of George Bush" or Bill Clinton's Executive order 13107 or the Posse Comitatus act of 1878.

    The Grand Chessbord

    The Unauthorized Biography Of George Bush

    Clinton's EO 13107

    Subscribing to the neo con dream of Pax Americana seems to be all the rage these days. I'm not surprized really. All that was needed was another "pearl Harbor type event" you can read this in the PNAC documents on their own website.
    Project For A New American Century

    The next site explains much about PNAC.

    PNAC INFO

    Posse Comitatus

    But then any credible evidence can be swiftly rendered useless by just muttering the words "conspiracy theory".
     
  18. AVL1984

    AVL1984
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    6,932
    Likes Received:
    3
    But, poncho, isn't that really all they are...Conspiracy Theories? None can be totally proven beyond doubt. Even the so called truth can't be proven beyond a doubt when it comes to government, either.
     
  19. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, I have not read "The Grand Chessboard" or "The Unauthorized Biography of George Bush" and don't plan to do so. I have too many good books to read to waste time of these.

    Yes, I'm rather familiar with the Posse Comitatus Act and subsequent executive orders on the matter. That has a little something to do with why I believe the illegal immigration problem needs to remain a civil verses military problem and solution.

    No, I'm not impressed with PNAC. The first page of it spells "evil conspiracy theory".

    "Pax Americana" is a Latin term meaning "American Peace" and is used by US foriegn policy critics to suggest we suppress countries that don't cooperate with us. So?

    Patrick
     
  20. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, we are being invaded by Mexico, a million illegals a year.
     

Share This Page

Loading...