Would you permit the man described to preach in your church?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by LarryN, Sep 25, 2003.

  1. LarryN

    LarryN
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    If a pastor were recommended to you, with the following details included in the description, would any pastor out there permit him near your pulpit? Why or why not?


    "He has a full, thick beard; he's known to have quite a fondness for cigars; he's a Calvinist; and he doesn't always preach from the King James."


    (Careful.............)
     
  2. Jim1999

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    The Prince of preachers, Mr. Charles Haddon Spurgeon....he also liked a little brandy by times, and was a stalwart Baptist.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  3. LarryN

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    Good job, my friend. How many churches today would reject Spurgeon? Food for thought.
     
  4. Mike McK

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    That's what I was going to say: sounds like Spurgeon.
     
  5. Jim1999

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    I fear quite a few if they only read all the biographies. He once smashed all the windows in his church with his walking stick because the church board refused to provide ventilating windows.

    He went through bouts of deep depression that prevented him from preaching for weeks. Oh, we would condemn him for lack of faith, wouldn't we?

    I had the privilege of standing in what would have been his pulpit. I should like to have been alive in his time to hear him preach.

    He was so afraid of fire they issued worship tickets to limit the size of the congregation. He would have been called a charlatan to-day. Yet, he authored some 180 books including the Treasury of David, 7 volumes on the Pslams, not to be equalled anywhere...and all his sermons are in print.

    Cheers, and thanks for this,

    Jim
     
  6. Mike McK

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    Actually, on onlinebaptist.com, they would. There's a discussion there right now that says that anyone suffering from depression isn't right with God and that people suffering from mental illness should just "get over it".

    I'm a fan of Spurgeon but by no means an expert. I had no idea about this. Interesting.

    Of course he would. Jesus, Himself, would most likely be tossed out of most churches today.
     
  7. Tim

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    Not to mention that he waffled on his eschatology! Truly an unforgiveble sin to many today.

    Tim
     
  8. swaimj

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    I wouldn't have someone who smokes cigars in my pulpit today. The other issues are not huge to me. Would I have felt the same way about cigars 100 years ago? Given the paucity of medical evidence against smoking 100 years ago, I doubt I would have had a problem. By the same token, if Spurgeon were alive today, I doubt he would smoke 3 packs of cigarettes a day and I imagine he would preach against it.

    As to the issue of depression, much work to understand this condition has occurred in the medical field in the last 100 years and much thinking about the theological ramifications of the condition has occurred as well. If Spurgeon were alive today and could take advantage of all this, perhaps he would feel better.
     
  9. Dan Todd

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    Spurgeon was also a rather rotund individual - on purpose - as I have been led to believe - reason - so people would watch him while he was preaching. This rotund condition probably led to his premature death!

    I can't imagine preaching to thousands without the benefit of a PA system - yet Spurgeon did.
     
  10. Major B

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    The reason for Spurgeon's fear of fire was that while preaching in a music hall (while his new church was being built), there was a fire in the overcrowded building and many people died. He was heartstricken about it, and in some ways never got over it.

    Once one of his deacons came to him to tell him he was smoking too much, and he said, "I will be smoking too much if I have two cigars in my mouth at the same time..."
     
  11. Jim1999

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    Dan, where I was trained, there was no PA system. The church seated over 3000 and one could whisper in the pulpit and be heard. The church was built for preaching.

    The same is true of many churches in the UK..the old churches. Project your voice when you speak. I despise PA systems and generally shut them off when I preach.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  12. HankD

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    John 11
    33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,

    John 12
    27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

    John 13
    21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

    Matthew 26
    38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

    Isaiah 53
    3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
     
  13. Pete Richert

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    How about MacDonald's? How about Pepsi? Heart disease is the number one killer in this country. It kills more the lung cancer, indeed it kills more then all cancers put together! And the number one cause of heart disease is poor eating habits. If smoking has killed its thousands, MacDonald's and its allies have killed their tens of thousands. So I hope you are consistant and don't let anyone who regualary consumes any sort of red meat preach at your pulpit.

    Spurgeon preached 100% from the Biblical text, verse by verse. He doesn't pick topics to preach agaist like modern preachers. He wouldn't preach agaist smoking even if he thought it was wrong. In the same vein Pastor Bob in the history forum claims he would not preach agaist slavery (which he disdains) because there is no where in the Bible condemning it.
     
  14. Jeff Weaver

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    Hey, I resemble that remark.
     
  15. dianetavegia

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    Nope on these conditions....
     
  16. Jim1999

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    When I was still in England, I smoked a pipe. When I came to Canda, the motorcars drive from the wrong side and my pipe kept connecting with the closed window on my left....I gave up smoking the pipe for that reason....Glad I did. It was not a problem in England, but all smoking was frowned upon in Canada. Funny how different countries have different taboos in the church. Shouldn't that tell us something?

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

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  18. LarryN

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    Swaimj raises a point about smoking that has always puzzled me: He seems to be saying that since the health risks of smoking weren't established in earlier generations (here back in Spurgeon's time), that the practice of smoking may not have been considered sinful. Once the risks became evident, however, smoking became a practice widely viewed as a sin (although it is not mentioned specifically in the Bible). The general rationale is that is sin because it harms our bodies: the temple in which the Holy Spirit resides within believers.

    Could this be true though: Can a practice be a sin only as it relates to our understanding of its consequences? Essentially, if smoking wasn't a sin back then, how could it be now; and likewise if it is a sin now, why wouldn't it have been back then? Can some things be sinful for some generations, but not for others?

    In a similar vein, since we now widely recognize the harmful effects of too much fat & cholesterol, when would it become a sin to consume a Bacon Double-Cheeseburger?

    A dietary-induced heart-attack or stroke will kill a body just as surely (and generally more suddenly) as lung-cancer will.

    Thoughts/opinions?
     
  19. swaimj

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    Several factors cause me to disagree with you. First, Jesus taught that food does not defile us before God. Also Paul warned against preachers who forbade meats (and sex). Rather than forbid certain foods or certain meats, we should preach and model moderation. While medical science is pretty firm that a steady diet of red meat can be harmful to ones health, consumption in moderation is probably OK. BTW, since red meat was allowed under Jewish law it is highly likely that Jesus ate red meat.

    I haven't read much of Spurgeon's preaching but my guess is that he sought principles from the scripture which applied to issues of his day and addressed them.
     
  20. swaimj

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    The question on this thread was not "do you think smoking is a sin?" The question was, "would you allow this man to preach in your pulpit?" My answer to that question is "no" because...

    Smoking is harmful to the body (violating the principle that our body is God's temple, as you said).

    Smoking is enslaving (violating the principle that "all things are lawful" to the Christian but we are not be be "brought under the power of any").

    Smoking is regarded as a poor practice even by secular society.

    In all three of these there is an issue of the example a man is setting by smoking. The man in the pulpit is to be above reproach, he is to be an example of a true believer, and is to have a good reputation with those without.

    My answer to the question is not based upon a single statement in scripture that forbids smoking. There is none. It is based upon the application of several principles to the habit. Of the three principles I gave, I am not sure that any of them would have occurred to people 100 years ago. In that sense, my conclusions define a cultural sin, not an objective one.

    It is possible that in the future scientists will discover a health benefit in smoking. It is possible that a type of smoking will be developed that is not addictive. It is possible that society may change its mind and consider smoking to be a mark of high character. If that happens, I'll re-think my position. [​IMG]
     

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