Would you support this pastor?

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by abcgrad94, May 18, 2012.

  1. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94
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    Recently, we got a letter from another pastor in our group (GARBC.) It was from a bi-vo pastor of a small existing church wanting our church to commit to supporting his church/him at $10 a month for three years. He believes that if enough churches or individuals do this, he can quit his job to be a full-time pastor and grow the church sufficiently in three years to cover full-time pay for the pastor.

    There was no missionary agency mentioned, no accountability measures noted.

    Would you send a letter like this if you were in his shoes? Would you have your church support this pastor?

    This letter rankled me a bit. My dh has pastored the same church for 7 years and is bi-vo. He's never gotten a raise from the church in all that time, in fact we have taken a cut. We would never send out a letter like this.
     
  2. annsni

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    I do think that it would rankle me a bit but I think one church supporting another is a great idea. Just not so sure that a church should go around fundraising like that from other churches. How about he get his own congregation to increase their giving - or else stay bi-vo! There is nothing wrong with bi-vo.
     
  3. Mexdeaf

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  4. RG2

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    I don't know if I necessarily have an issue with the fundraising. However especially if he's soliciting from other churches with bi-voc pastors it seems really selfish, because that really undermines other ministers.
     
  5. padredurand

    padredurand
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    Read to him from the Good Book:

    I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.
    1 Corinthians 3:6-7 NAS77

    and tell him to take his lazy behind to work. :smilewinkgrin: I've been bi-vo so long I forgot what it was like to work one day a week.
     
  6. TadQueasy

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    No and no. I would also write the gentleman a letter and explain to him why I was not supporting him.
     
  7. Mexdeaf

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    LOL!:laugh:
     
  8. Salty

    Salty
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    I am familiar with the GARB- I realize they do not have associations as the SBC does - but has he requested assistance from the State Association? Scripture does not require a mission board - in fact some pastors/churches are totally against them.

    Some have said that Bi-vos are no problem. When I have pastored, I have always been bi-vo- but my goal was to become fully supported by my church - but that never happened.
    I am in favor of a pastor being full time if reasonably possible. The reason being - a full time pastor can be very comforting to members of his flock. Have you ever received a phone call at 2 in the morning from a member who has been admitted to the hospital? "but I have to be at work at 5am" is not helpful to that member. Having a revival at church is a lot more work than being there 10 minutes before service begins - and counseling may go way past the end of the service.
    There are many more examples of the advantages of a full time pastor. Now, this is not to put down bi-vos (remember I was one- currently I am a bivo associate pastor) but why provide hamburger when you can provide steak.

    As far as this particular pastor - why do they need help? Might be worth finding out. Keep us posted.

    Salty
     
  9. FundyPat

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    Tell him to get a job. He's looking for a gravy train easy way to make money.
     
  10. Havensdad

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    You think full time pastoring is "Easy"? For fourteen years I worked some of the hardest construction jobs in the country. Been in steaming hot pipe racks in the middle of Texas summer, with full asbestos garb on... hung steel in buildings hundreds of feet in the air...assembled several hundred foot tall scaffolding tied off to next to nothing..

    And I can say, without equivocation, being a pastor is harder work than any other job I have done. It IS a real job. On behalf of all pastors here, I say :tongue3:

    1Co_9:14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

    As to the op: what on earth is everyone's problem, here? Have we been confronted with so many scam artists on television, that when a brother asks for help, we automatically assume he is a crook? The guy is wanting to spend his time evangelizing the lost. He is wanting to expand the kingdom. Why on earth would not another Christian want to support him? Maybe his method isn't the best; but it certainly is not unheard of... missionaries do this all the time; the apostle Paul gathered offerings for other struggling churches.

    Brother, I say, get to know the guy. Make sure of his calling, passion for the lost, and sound doctrine. If he is on the up and up, and your church can afford it, I say give him whatever you can. Get involved with his church. Pray for his church. Send people from your church to visit his church. You visit his church, and take him and his wife out to dinner; let them know you support them with more than just money.
     
  11. exscentric

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    It is possible if not probable he was mailing to all kinds of churches and did not know you were in the same position he was.

    Bi-voc is not necessarily something super special though I admire all that do it - including myself - ain't I great :) my entire life was bi-voc except 4 years and most of the support we received there was through filling pulpit weekends.

    I've always ascribed to the idea that Christ is the one building the church and if he doesn't grow it then He thinks it is big enough for now. Going full time may or may not allow the building of numbers.

    One of the churches I filled in for asked me to be interim. They went from 74 or so to 125 or so in a few months and I was only there for services on Wed. and Sunday. God is able to do great things whether we are bi-voc or not :)

    To the OP, I don't see anything wrong with it but feel free to share your thoughts with him in Christian love. Maybe next time he will be more thoughtful in his prep and mailing of requests.

    And a big thanks to all bi-voc inals, the churches you minister to most likely are very appreciative of your help even though they may seldom show it.
     
  12. agedman

    agedman
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    This is a great way to respond to the letter. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

    It not only provides for a certain level of accountability, but the ministry is extremely lonely. I have met many pastors who could have used a strong network of like minded, yet non-judgmental associations in which to share, vent, pray, bounce concepts, ... back before things like the BB existed.

    Oh, my mistake - the BB non-judgmental????
     
  13. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94
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    Agedman, I'm sorry if my op sounded judgmental. I realize this other pastor is struggling just like we are. It would have been better, though, had he taken time to find out more about us and our church before just sending us a letter asking for money. We've never even met this person and we don't know anything about his ministry.

    Absolutely, we should encourage each other and get to know each other, but that road travels both ways. I think one should at least do their homework before sending out a letter like this.
     
  14. HeirofSalvation

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    :tear:No, and No...get a job. :tear:

    There are Church planters and Pastors....Paul plants Apollos waters If Paul is planting, he needs the cash money...and will give you the what-for if he don't get it. If Apollos wants cash money...he betta hope God gives more increase.

    Our Pastor is bi-vo....1.5 years ago, he came to a church of 22 and got $200 a week. Now that our membership is 160...and regular attendance around 200 he will be full time, the plan is, by June. Sorry to sound harsh, but I ain't buyin' it. Demographics make a difference as well, if he is serving at "only Baptist" Church of nowhere-random-place (population 210.) Next door to "Only Methodist"... In his Church of 52....He isn't doing a full-time job. He is doing a part-time job, and thus rates Part-time pay. We shouldn't muzzle the ox that treads out the corn...but the ox better tread out some corn. If he is serving in a Church of 350...his members had better repent.

    If he has a sending Church that has tasked him with Church-planting...he deserves support from his sending Church and possibly others Associated
     
  15. More Than Conquerors

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    It was mentioned at the beginning he already has a job.
    There is a lot of reading in between the lines in this thread.

    It may be better to give the gentleman the benefit of the doubt. The job market is terrible and we do not know how small of a market he is in.

    There are many men of God who pastor without any secular work experience or education to move to a better paying job. With little education the only jobs available for him may demand Sunday work schedules.

    Before we jump on the man, lets first imagine his sleepless nights, his hard work and his sacrifice for the ministry, his anxious prayers and worrying over providing for his family etc.

    We just don't know his own pain and hurting right now. If he sent the letters more than likely it is a method of last resort.

    He very well may be in the mindset of, "God, I tried everything, this is my last shot, if they won't help me that is it. I can't continue the ministry and neglect my family any more."

    Let's always keep our guard up for the frauds and slackers but there is no evidence to justify us already judging him as one.
     
  16. USN2Pulpit

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    Agreed...almost every pastor I come across knows what it's like when people judge them unfairly. Thanks for your post.
     
  17. Sapper Woody

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    I wouldn't blindly send a man money, but the attitude I see on the board here is apalling. It's not uncommon for a man to seek support for a limited time (3 years seems a bit long to me, we typically did a 6 month period and then possibly extend another 6 months) so that he can build a church.

    Accountability is a must. Basically, this man is becoming a missionary to the U.S., and as such should send out monthly reports of his progress.

    People are correct in saying that there is nothing wrong with being bi-vocational. But, how much more can a man of God do if he can devote more time to his people? How about his family? As a PK, I can tell you straight up that I absolutely hated it when my Dad was bi-vo. He had to work full-time, and then had to study and go soul-winning and counsel people. Don't get me wrong, my Dad always had time to talk if I needed. But in my mind the ministry was competing against me for attention.

    A pastor in Illinois made a great statement, and I believe that all pastors should try to live this: "The ministry has made it possible for me to be at all my kid's [basketball] games, all their recitals, and other things important to them. It hasn't kept me from them [kids], or them from it [the ministry]."

    Being a Pastor is a full time job, whether you're bi-vo or not. So, if you add a second job to it, you're doing two jobs (hence the term "bi-vocational") and have that much less time for your family.

    I congratulate any pastor who is trying to become a pastor only; who is trying to get out of the secular work-force.
     

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