You be the Judge

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Oct 15, 2006.

  1. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
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    It was a dark night in August when a man, steeped in depression due to both marriage and financial woes, decided on a path that would end his misery, or so he thought. He knew that at 11:00 this very evening a train would be making its trek close to his home down the track right outside of town. The crossing was well lit with flashers, even having bars that come down intended to stop any cars from passing into danger.

    As the hour approached, he got into his car and drove to the crossing, and waited patiently for the approaching train. At just before 11:00 he saw the headlights of the train in the distance approaching. Momentarily the lights on the cross bars began to flash and the bar lowered itself to keep any motorists from trying to cross the crossing while in danger of being struck by the train. The driver of the car waited until the train was near, and swerved around the crossbars and stopped his car on the tracks in the direct path of the oncoming train. The engineer saw the car in the dark of night pull onto the tracks and stop, applied the brakes of the train but to no avail. It would take almost a mile for the train to come to a complete stop at the rate the train was traveling.

    Needless to say, the man in the car was successful in his attempt to end his life, dying instantly that night at the crossing.

    It is obvious that the cause of death was due to the train’s impact. The question is, was the engineer of that train guilty of this mans death? Why or why not? Where do you turn for a solution to this question? Do you find yourself forced to turn to Scripture to make a proper judgment?

    If this scenario was explained to a heathen, is it possible that he could judge this situation fairly? What gives the heathen and others alike the ability to judge such cases? Can you discern any intuitive principles of justice that might be used to find out who is at fault in the death of that man? Does the possibility exist that you can be wrong in your judgment, if the facts of the case are positively just as stated? Can you be absolutely sure that you are judging according to wisdom and truth?

     
  2. Claudia_T

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    I dont understand why there would be any question as to who was at fault there? Of course the man who stuck himself in the way of the train would be at fault, the engineer couldnt do anything about it.


    ...unless Im just missing something
     
  3. EdSutton

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    Since the train is run by the Conductor, the Engineer merely pulls the throttle driving it, and the Brakeman is actually the one with the responsibility for braking, why not ask about them? It doesn't take the wisdom of Solomon, or a rocket scientist to answer this one, whether or not one is "absolutely sure that you are judging according to wisdom and truth".

    Well said and simply put, Claudia_T.

    Ed
     
    #3 EdSutton, Oct 15, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2006
  4. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Examine for a minute the principles involved in your coming to the conclusion you did. Did you automatically go the Scripture to make the judgment you did, or was your judgment simply intuitively discerned? Could one correctly arrive at the same response you gave that had never even read Scripture?

    What is the source of the knowledge utilizing in making your decision? Why are you so confident that you are making a correct judgment? If you are absolutely certain of the facts as given, can you be ‘absolutely certain’ of the judgment you rendered?

    What principles or knowledge did you utilize, that you are so confident in to guide you in this judgment? Are they universal principles? Do you have any idea as to how to articulate what those principles are, so as for others to be able to recognize and apply them in their search for truth in other areas as well?

    Can you think of any issues or circumstances where one could not trust the principles you employed to safely guide you to truth, or are they of such a nature that they must be utilized if possible if one is to arrive safely at truth?

    Is it wise to approach Scripture without the utilization of the principles you employed in this illustration in matters of morals, blame or praise? Where does this intuitive wisdom come from? Who is it's Author? Can truths, such as used in judging this illustration, be found at antipodes with truths found in Scripture? If so, can you give us an example?
     
  5. EdSutton

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    You are definitely missing something! For it does not exist. Namely, the purpose of the OP's post!

    Ed
     
  6. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Patience Brother Ed, patience! :)
     
  7. EdSutton

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    Well I'm obviously not Claudia_T, but I think I know where I can find an example of a bizarre post. And I won't have to look very far!

    Ed
     
  8. Pete

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    Unless this is one of those stupid loaded lateral thinking questions (boy I hate those things...) then it's nothing to do with the engineer. He jumped on the brakes, but as you mentioned those things take a fair bit of convincing to stop.


    One afternoon about a thousand years ago in the taxi I was heading in to town in left lane, and an idiot came straight out in front of me. Usually not a problem, I just eased off and went over to right lane. Aforementioned idiot then decides to come in to right lane with me.....

    "Ask and ye shall receive" :tonofbricks:

    When someone is absolutely determined to be hit at short notice even the best can't do much about it except take off as much speed as possible and wait for the "*CRUNCH* *tinkle*"

    Unless I was supposed to swing further out to the right into path of on-coming traffic? Or the engineer was supposed to reveal that he was really superman and could have flown the train out of the way? ;)



    Oh, and the dude I hit wasn't a suicide attempt, he just didn't see the white & red taxi that was twice the size of the car he was driving.... :rolleyes:
     
  9. Claudia_T

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    Heavenly Pilgrim,


    I guess I dont understand why someone would have to go to the Scriptures to figure out its stupid to stick your car in front of a train.

    I dont know, I guess I just dont get it :)

    It's probably because I'm a blonde... or something like that.
     
  10. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Are you bragging or complaining? :laugh:

    OK. You say that you don’t have to go to Scripture to figure this out. What would you say to one that goes to Scripture and violates the very principles which you utilized, even though you might not have ever codified them or even gave them direct thought, but still employed them in your judgment? There have been those on this list that deny in their theology what you say is elementary and so basic to human understanding that even a child can see the validity of it.

    In order to make the judgment that you did, you employed a basic first truth of reason, either consciously or without direct cognizance of it, but just the same you could not have came to a sound judgment in this case apart from it. It is as follows.

    In order to anything blameworthy or praiseworthy, one must have choice, and been able to do something other than what they did under the very same set of circumstances in order to be praised or blamed for their intents and subsequent actions. That is a God–given intuitive first truth of reason, known and recognized by all men of reason to be true, that needs no supportive evidence or proof for the human mind to see plainly the validity of it. It would be preposterous to even try to prove such a universal truth……..yet men every day deny this basic intuitive God-given principle in their theology everyday.

    What I would like to know is why? Why can men and women see the validity of this so easily that to deny it would be to cavil at any semblance of truth, yet develop theological notions at direct antipodes with this truth? Is it not reasonable that if in fact it is truth that it has its basis in God, and truth must be harmonized with truth if we do not desire to see ourselves developing theological thoughts contrary to God Himself?
     
  11. BobRyan

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    The idea is that God "cares enough about SOME to rescue them from stupid robotic decisions in favor of death" but He does not care ENOUGH about the rest to enable them to actually turn away from jumping off the cliff.
     
  12. Brother Bob

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    we are created with the ability to think what is right and what is wrong. We don't have to run to the scriptures all the time when man has a concious given by God accusing or excusing.

    Job, chapter 32

    "7": I said, Days should speak, and multitude of years should teach wisdom.

    "8": But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

    "9": Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgment.




    I suspect there are some who could not give a good judgement.

    1Ti 4:2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
     
    #12 Brother Bob, Oct 15, 2006
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  13. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Sin is no 'stupid robotic decision' Bob. Sin is the willful transgression of a known commandment of God, and is willful rebellion. It has not the least to do with robotic manipulation. It is selfishness as opposed to benevolence.
     
  14. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Amen to that, even some on this list I am afraid.

    I know a person that was born with one arm, yet I believe it can be said truthfully that men are born with two arms, two legs, etc. without any injustice to truth.

    Sure some men act as if though they have not been granted the least shred of intuitive truth by God. Some of the theologians I have read are among that number. Just the same, they have been granted such intuitive truth, as we see witnessed by their every day judgments in other areas.

    If I said I was going to give everyone in a certain crowd a hundred dollar bill, but when I came to them I would give them a single dollar bill, their intuitive sense of justice would suddenly kick into high gear. :)
     

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