Your Chance to Defend Islam

The reasons why Marks are given is that it is meant to improve the standard of teaching AND to give feedback to parents.
This concept might work with Churches too.

[ January 02, 2003, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: Netcurtains3 ]

 

Man, I take two days away from the board for the new year, and look what happens!

It invariably, it only takes one person to ruin a shoebox by trying to stuff a car into it, and that's often what happens to threads such as these. But, I'm going to attempt to get to the original spirit of the thread with the followng quotes from the Quran. However, these are just a few, and my first day at work in the new year is preventing me from devoting much time to the task, so if y'all bear with me for a few days to catch up, I'll be forever in your debt.

First, a Muslim is supposed to accept scriptures as the word of God:
[God] gave the Scriptures to the Israelites and bestowed on them wisdom and prophethood.... Therefore, call men to the true faith... saying "I believe in all the scriptures that God has revealed."

Muslims are to practice what we know as the Golden Rule (do unto others, etc) :
Requite evil with good and he who is your enemy will become your dearest friend. Only by enduring with fortitude can this be done.

Christians and Jews are to be treated respectfully:
Be courteous in your debates with the People of the Book [Bible], except with those among them who do evil. Say: "We believe in that which is revealed to us and which was revealed to you. For God is one God."

Here's one that sounds familiar:

In the Torah God decreed a life for a life, an eye for an eye... But if a man charitably forbears from retaliation, his remission shall atone for him.

To those who have received the Scriptures and to the Gentiles it can be asked, "Have you given yourself to God? ...if they give no heed, then one's only duty is to warn them.

A Muslim who follows the Koran properly is to ascribe peace, not violence:

If anyone strikes down a person... it would be as if he struck down the whole people. And if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.

If two parties of believers (generally, Christians, Jews, or Muslims) take up arms the one against the other, make peace between them. If either of them commits aggression against the other, fight against the aggressors till they submit to God's judgment. When they submit make peace between them in equity and justice, for God loves those who act in justice.

The believers are a band of brothers. Make peace among your brothers and fear God, so that you may be shown mercy.

Do not allow your hatred for other men to turn you away from justice.

Also, the Quran teaches that religious conversion should be neither forced, nor coerced, sayng there shall be no compulsion in religion. A Muslim is also to let he who wishes to [follow Islam] do so and let he who wishes to follow elsewhere] do so.

That's it for now. My apologies, but I really gotta get back to work, and I'll post more later.

[ January 02, 2003, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

So where are all these peaceful Muslim nations ?

 

I went to Tunisa on my holidays once. Seemed nice enough place. Most Muslims in the UK seemed to have originated in Bangledesh - they seem nice enough guys. Bangledesh is a sort of democracy and its leaders are women.

http://www.glocaleye.org/bangladesh.htm

I think there are about 600,000 Catholics in Bangledesh.

[ January 02, 2003, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: Netcurtains3 ]

 

More quotes from the Islamic Scriptures:

"The Prophet said, on the day of the Conquest of Mecca, 'There is no migration, but Jihad and good intentions, and when you are called for Jihad, you should immediately respond to the call.'" Hadith 4.52.311

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him." Surah 3:85

"the Unbelievers are open enemies to you." Surah 4:101

"Seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks." Surah 4:89

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day." Surah 9:29

"Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of Allah, -whether he is slain or gets victory- soon shall We give him a reward of great value." Surah 4:74

The three things that are most valued to Allah:
1. to offer prayers
2. to be good to one's parents
3. "The Prophet said, 'To participate in Jihad for Allah's Cause." Hadith 8.73.1

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them, in every strategem of war." Surah 9:5

 

Notice I have provided references so that you can go back and check the context of each passage.

Where are the references to what you quoted, JohnV?

[ January 02, 2003, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: sodzei ]

 

Jesus Christ never killed one person when He lived on this earth.

Can the same be said about Muhammed?

 

Hi,
He never claimed to be God. You have to compare like with like.

Compare Muhammed to a leader of a nation who was also a prophet.
Joshua.

I think Muhammed seems a far nicer chap then Joshua.

I think Joshua killed women and children - he committed genocide.

[ January 03, 2003, 03:05 AM: Message edited by: Netcurtains3 ]

 

"Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not." Surah 2:216

[ January 03, 2003, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: sodzei ]

 

Mohammed to Islam is not what Jesus is to Christians. A better comparison of Mohammed would be Solomon, David, or Joshua.

 

DHK, you disagreed with my quran references, but haven't listed any quotes from the Quran to support your vies, like Sodzie has, for example. You say that several of the points I bring up are just theoretical practices. If that is so, why are these things that American Muslims readily know and follow? If you don't believe me, ask an American Muslim.

To Sodzie, yes, I can provide references. I had done so before, but there didn't seem to be an interest. You do a good job doing the same.

Two things become apparrant. One, that, just as in the Bible, there are passages that, if without regard to context, will be diametrically opposed in message. The second, that, just as with Christians, it's possible to pick and choose your beliefs, and use single passages to back your stance.

 

I don't know that much about the Quran, but from what I see here, it seems similar to the Old Testament. There are many passages advocating and even commanding war, killing, and so on, in both books. Muslims are simply without the New Covenant. Is that their fault? No, I would rather say it is no different from others who do not know of Jesus as He truly is, and I would also venture to say that part of it is our fault for not loving them enough to present the Gospel to them instead of insulting them.

 

John I looked through your post and I did not see any Quranic refences. There were some quotations, but none of them were referenced that I could see. I refuted what you said on the basis of my own experience with Muslims, and what they practice and teach. I have talked to many Muslims. As many as one out of ten in our city are from Asian descent, many if not most, Muslim.
DHK

 

Hi,
I got a few responses from Muslims for you:
a) Crusades:
http://www.myiwc.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2048

b) How some Canadian Muslims view some US TV preachers:
http://www.myiwc.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2769

c) What they think of Missionaries:
http://www.myiwc.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2037

 

Mohammed to Islam is not what Jesus is to Christians. A better comparison of Mohammed would be Solomon, David, or Joshua.</font>[/QUOTE]Why is that, Johnv? Jesus Christ is the Cornerstone of Christianity. Muhammed is regarded to be the cornerstone of Islam. Equal comparisons...founder v founder.

Mohammed claims to be a prophet. Solomon, David, and Joshua did not make that claim. So the comparison you suggest would be as apples to oranges.

 

If you're comparing founder to founder, Jesus Christ did not come here to found a religious institution.

If you want to compare founder to founder, I guess you'd have to compage Mohammed to Abraham.

 

Napoleon (cited by Vernon C. Grounds, The Reason for Our Hope) said: "I know men; and I tell you that Jesus Christ is not a man. Superficial minds see a resemblance between Christ and the founders of empires, and the gods of other religions. That resemblance does not exist. There is between Christianity and whatever other religions the distance of infinity.... Everything in Christ astonishes me. His spirit overawes me, and His will confounds me. Between him and whoever else in the world, there is no possible term of comparison. He is truly a being by Himself. His ideas and sentiments, the truth which he announces, His manner of convincing, are not explained either by human organization or by the nature of things.... The nearer I approach, the more carefully I examine, everything is above me -- everything remains grand, of a grandeur which overpowers. His religion is a revelation from an intelligence which certainly is not that of man.... One can absolutely find nowhere, but in Him alone, the imitation or the example of His life.... I search in vain in history to find the similar to Jesus Christ, or anything which can approach the gospel. Neither history, nor humanity, nor the ages, nor nature, offer me anything with which I am able to compare it or to explain it. Here everything is extraordinary.