'45 million Americans' -- who are those guys?

Life and Health insurance are both similar in this way. The people who see the greatest need have the highest risk. Insurance companies know this and must mitigate against risk with offsetting costs. It would be nice if we could change behavior and make young people see the need for both, but we can't.

Oh wait...yes we can! Big Brother can do anything! :BangHead:

 

That is the reason why we are the United States not the Independent States. People who have the most money also have the least risk of getting hurt on a job too.

There is quite a good transcript of how the wealthy take advantage of the poor at http://www.pbs.org/tradesecrets/transcript.html.

 

I wonder where they get these numbers.

And how many of these are illegal invaders?

 

what is your point?

I can remember when conservative churches did more to help others and the taxes in the U.S. were much higher. Today the churches in the same convention keep more to themselves and people pay less taxes. Are you suggesting that your own convention is liberal?

Do you really know where those chemical plants are? They are in the south where there are lot so of Southern Baptists.

 

I was just trying to make sure I understood your point without coming to a judgment based on presumption. That is the reason why I was hoping to get a clear answer from you.

 

Indpendent states that happen to be United....that's the USA

 

Could you quote me where I presented any theology?

 

Apparently you think that Baptists should not have an affect on a state and nation by the way you label people. It was the Republican party who encouraged the chemical plants and loosened their requirements. It was the Republican party that allowed and encouraged illegals to work in the forests in the pacific northwest. Yet so many Baptists support the Re-publican party.

 

The so called conservatives are not doers today as they were years ago when the taxes were higher. Because of less taxes, conservatives have more disposable money today and invest less in others and church ministries. I would call that selfishness and leaning toward the liberalism of being deluded.

 

What credible statistical evidence do you have to prove this?

You certainly couldn't prove it by me. I am a conservative independent pro-life, retired senior citizen. I give more by dollar amount and income percentage than ever in my life. To the church, world-vision, missionaries, individuals in need, pro-life organizations, law-enforcement organizations and even on occassion for the benefit of the protection of dumb animals.


HankD

 

Know of any churches that give 50% of its receipts to missions today? That was not uncommon 50 years ago. Denomination and convention reports show that giving is down and church starts are down. All of the items you listed are up. Talk with anyone 80 years old and ask them about building churches. Today the money is borrowed. The number of paid staff is up in churches. My wife and I were married in a church that had one secretary, one of each: a senior, youth and music pastor. The church was 1200 and gave 50% of its receipts directly to missions outside of its own ministry. Today it gives about 1/2 that amount, has much less ministry and much more staff.

 

Actually, the number of paid staff (and amount paid) is down. I'll provide the link when I get to my laptop. A local church of 2,000 on Sun AM has a SR pastor, a FT sec, and that's it. Volunteers do everything else. Three local First Baptist types have half the staff they did ten years ago. The number of FT pastors has dwindled by half in the association where I live and bivocational/PTs have filled their ranks.

No question church starts are down, but it's not an economic decision. Churches have stopped making disciples and are just swapping sheep, so they're tired of adding churches by division. There has not been an intentional church plant in my local association in almost 60 years. Every new church since then was a split.

And the reason a lot of church construction $ is borrowed? It's expensive to build what the world has convinced churches they need. Dedicated sanctuaries with dormant education space, all with Powerpoint projectors and internet access. Adds up quickly.

 

I will never forget what a 92 year old man told me in a Sunday School class I was teaching in 1993. He said to me that during the depression people praying was up and so was church attendance. A friend of mine who recently returned from about 25 years on the mission field told me that in most cases he noticed changes in clothes and other minor things. However he noticed a big change in the sermons and Sunday Schools the last time he came home. That ought to tell us a lot.

I do not blame that on the world so much as leaders within conventions and denominations who are misled and misleading pastors and congregations