Is there something we add to God?

[Allan]

My family and I was down visiting relatives a few months back and visited our our old Church home. Our old pastor had recently gone into full time evangelism and so they have another pastor filling in for the time being - till search team finds another pastor for the church. - ANYWAY..

During the wednesday night bible study, the interim pastor that night stated he wanted to give the church some real meat to chew on. One of those tidbits of meat was this -

Some people say that God is perfect, and they are correct in that, and thus we can add nothing to God. He can not be added to nor taken away from, but I disagree. .. We do in fact add something to God something more than He had to start with, and that is glory. This is not to say that God never had glory but that we add to God and thus give to him more than He had before.

I disagree, but will not state why as of yet.. but thought I would throw this 'meat' out there upon the banquet table to see if it is good or spoiled. :saint:

Editted in: I guess I should also ask - why or why not?

 

[billreber]

I just read this, and may comment more later. My first thought is that we could never add anything to God, because He is perfect and provides everything to us.

Therefore, the glory we "add to Him" was already in existence and belongs to Him already! Perhaps it would be more accurate to say we RETURN TO HIM the glory He has given us.

I don't have any Biblical backing for this comment (yet!), but think it is probably more accurate that what the interim pastor said.

Bill :godisgood:

 

[Scarlett O.]

I agree with Allan and Bill in that I disagree with the person who stated that we add to the glory of God.

I'm having trouble just off the top of my head articulating evidence for my opinion, but in the mean time, here is someone else's cool opinion.

http://www.allaboutgod.com/glory-to-god.htm

Glory to God - New Life in Christ
Believers are called to bring glory to God. In 1 Corinthians 10:31, the Apostle Paul exhorts, "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." Believers are called to give glory to God by what we say and do.It does not mean that we are adding to the glory God already has. It means we are revealing the glory of God to the world through our words, lifestyle, and behavior. It also means that we are giving God our praise and adoration.

As good as this quote is, it's still not exactly how I would word it.

I'm fumbling with my thoughts this morning, but I don't think that we have ANTHING that God needs. Even the prayers we make, the money we give to missions, the help we give to others, and the glory we bring to Him - He gives it to us all in the first place to do with it what He tells us to.

Not that we are puppets on a string, but we are obedient children who are totally and thoroughly dependent on our Heavenly Father for even the desire and ability to bring glory to Him - glory that He already possesses and solely owns.

I guess it's kind of like an earthly father who has to secretly pay for his own Father's Day gift that his 4-year-old child wants to buy him. It means more to the dad who pays for his own gift to delight in the child's delight of giving than it does even to the child - the child who cannot wait to give the gift, yet did not pay for it nor earn it the money nor even come up with the idea.

I hope that made sense.

 

[Jedi Knight]

I think we reflect the glory of God. The Moon puts out no light of it own but reflects it from the Sun. :jesus:

 

[Allan]

I think we reflect the glory of God. The moon puts out no light of it own but reflects it from the Sun. :jesus:

That is so totally NOT FAIR. That is my exact analogy for this but the rest I will still hold off on.

However, in thinking about it one can get some confused thoughts since we are 'bring God glory' but does bringing equate to 'adding'.

Interesting answers so far. It does make you have to be more concise in how this is answered, huh?

 

[Revmitchell]

Everything is for God's Glory to include the salvation of men. Salvation is not an end but the means in which God is glorified. Christ on the cross was to glorify God.( Luke 24:26) Christ came to this earth in glory. (John 1:14) Christ will return in Glory. (Matt 25:31) God deserves all glory and will not allow it to be given away. (Acts 12:23,Romans 1:23-32)

Having said that God's glory cannot be added to or taken away. It is His and His alone and no one has the power or authority to take it, diminish it, or add to it.( 1 Chron 29:11) It can be declared among the lost.(1 Chron 16:24; Psalm 96:3) It will drive men to their knees. (2 Chron 7:3) Everyone sees His glory (Psalm 97:6)

 

[Jedi Knight]

That is so totally NOT FAIR.

I remember Dr Tony Evans use that illustration before.:wavey:

 

[Jedi Knight]

But I will say I heard Brother Allan gave it next time! =)

 

[Jon-Marc]

There is absolutely NOTHING we can add to God. We can give Him NOTHING that He does not already possess, but ALL that we have comes from Him.

Without Him we are nothing. Without us He is still God and nothing less than what He is with us.

 

[Deacon]

IMHO, the question is worded poorly.
God doesn't need or require anything outside of himself.
[Oy , I had to correct a typo (anythong) :tongue3: ]

But God has desires - when we walk in his ways, we please him.

When our praises reach his ears, we give him great pleasure.

Does God need it? No!

Does it give him pleasure, Yes!

Rob

 

[gb93433]

God will not be mocked. He is God. Any futile attempt we make to add or subtract from who God is does not change who He really is.

 

[Jon-Marc]

But God has desires - when we walk in his ways, we please him.

When our praises reach his ears, we give him great pleasure.

Does God need it? No!

Does it give him pleasure, Yes!

Rob

THAT I can go along with. We need Him; He does not need us. He didn't create us for a need to be worshiped and adored. He created us to have a people to love and lavish undeserved blessings upon.

 

[OldRegular]

If we could add to God that would mean He is not complete and, therefore, He would not be God!

 

[donnA]

I also disagree, God is full and complete without us.
And the "more then He had to start with" God had no 'to start with', if He did then there would have been a time when He didn't exsit.

 

[donnA]

Now that I read page 2 I'm agreeing with old regular.

 

[OldRegular]

Now that I read page 2 I'm agreeing with old regular.

Thanks donnA. But be careful. Sometimes I think it is dangerous to agree with OldRegular on this Forum.

I like your response in post #14. It reminds me of what I used to ask my father as a boy: "Where did God come from?" His response was of course the only one possible: "He has always been." Only Dad would say something like "He's allus been."

I thank God for my parents. There was a time when I was not a Christian. But there has never been a time in my conscious memory when I did not believe in the reality of the God of the Bible and in the reality of Jesus Christ.

 

[Allan]

Great, it seems like everyone agrees with me (j/k)

However, I understand his argument (though I don't agree with it) that man was created for to purpose of proclaiming God's glory (and that is bound up in so doiing - grace, mercy, judgment, ect..)

His argument comes partly from this aspect of 'proclaiming', which as he stated can mean to declare what is there. Yet he also added that it can imply a giving up to God what is ours (pathetic though it may be) because all glory, even the smallest bit should go to God. Therefore we are giving to God what He deserves but what is actaully ours.


As stated previously by 'Jedi Knight', I believe that we are reflections of God and even in our fallen nature we still exude some aspect of basic goodness (not salvic) and not absolute evil/wickedness. Don't get me wrong here because I'm not saying the sinners are dim lights, I'm saying we are shadowy reflections or ghostly shades of what we were supposed to be. We were made in His image and therefore are a reflection of Him and His glory. Only Christ shines with and in His glory and thusly only the children of God do so as well because the darkness that comes with sin has been removed in our lives. He is the light and the light of the world.. as christians.. let your light so shine amoung men. We are much like the moon and the sun. The moon is only visable when the Son casting it's radiant glory of light upon it. Therefore in order to shine that light we must be in the light and do that which we were created to do 'with that light' - reflect it toward those in darkness.

No this little ditty most often would not ruffle my feathers so much but since he was teaching this, that was one issue (I spoke with him afterwards - especailly since a person in the church left over it and something else said) but also that I have heard this on more than one occassion. No this man isn't a newby but has (if I remember correctly) two Masters degrees, one I know is from Southwestern (SBC) and has been in the pastorate for over 17 years. That is only to state he hasn't recently come preaching.

 

[gb93433]

His argument comes partly from this aspect of 'proclaiming', which as he stated can mean to declare what is there. Yet he also added that it can imply a giving up to God what is ours (pathetic though it may be) because all glory, even the smallest bit should go to God. Therefore we are giving to God what He deserves but what is actually ours.

I think the same thing happens more than we can imagine. I think it has often happened right before our eyes. Look at how many have bought into PDC as a church growth method rather than studying the Bible to see how the church grew and how Jesus taught his disciples.
It takes work to study the Bible and to learn for ourselves what is really taught. We must avoid the temptation to take shortcuts.

Too often there is the idea that we must learn the deep meaning of scripture when I am not sure there is nothing more than what is written. The mysteries of the faith are not always learned through discovery but rather over time accompanied bu consistent obedience.

Sometimes what we do is like looking at a forest from the viewpoint of an ant rather than seeing it from airplane when it is from the airplane is what is intended.

 

[Aaron]

God glorifies Himself in all things, even the acts of the wicked. All things work together for good to them that love God.