It's that time of year again . . .

[Johnv]

The old rule was "white wine with white meat and fish/red wine with red meat". That's not true any more.

Whew! Makes me feel better. I had sauvignon blanc with my prime rib the other day, and thought I was hellbound.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Whew! Makes me feel better. I had sauvignon blanc with my prime rib the other day, and thought I was hellbound.

You can always drink beer. Goes with everything.

 

[Johnv]

You can always drink beer. Goes with everything.

That's true. It goes with football, baseball, hockey, basketball...

 

[Aaron]

I understand Webdog's concern here, but I think people are polarizing on the topic just for the sake of polarizing. Any mature Christian who hunts does not do so because it feels good to kill something. Hunting doesn't just involves the death of an animal. It involves the hunt. Hunting is difficult, requires patience, discernment, and fortitude. Getting food from hunting, fishing, etc, gives one a greater appreciation for how we get food in the first place. It used to be the norm that people had this appreciation. But in the day when most people buy meat products that don't remotely resemble the animal it came from, that appreciation is lost.

To reiterate, a mature Christian who hunts does not do so because it feels good to kill something. Even though it is a sin to take pleasure in killing something indiscriminately, it is not a sin in and of itself to enjoy hunting. There is indeed a difference. That said, there are no doubt some people who hunt because they want to kill something. If they're doing it for that reason, they're doing it for the wrong reason.

Whatever. It's the kill that drives them to the woods. Many of them go alone and sit in tree stands for hours in the hopes of making a kill.

Let me ask a question: How many of you "hunters" actually track your prey?

 

[Aaron]

PD: I sure hope your butcher hates his job.

JDF: No, that's different. It's OK for Webdog to pay somebody else to kill animals for his enjoyment, it's just not OK for us to harvest animals to feed our families.

To think that the part of a butcher's job that he should find fulfilling is the actual kill and cutting of the animal is somewhat disturbing. Is that why you take your kills to the locker, because it's run by men who really get a thrill out of cutting them up?

 

[Aaron]

So let's look at how the killing of an animal gives humans pleasure.

First of all we will look at hunters...
It is pleasurable to get out into nature
It is pleasurable to have bonds with your fellowman
It is pleasurable to actually "hunt"... the act of finding the animal

None of this pleasure requires a kill, so all these are irrelevant to the topic.

It is pleasurable to succeed in the hunt... the actual killing

Without which the other affore-mentioned pleasures would be rendered anticlimactic and frustrating—this has already been dealt with. Haven't you been paying attention?

(Which may be the only aspect so far that is troubling you, right?)

Who's troubled? I'm only evaluating the activity and the motivation thereof according to the Scriptures.

It is pleasurable to eat the meat... (Can't eat the meat without killing the animal)

Like I said, of the twenty-five or so hunters with whom I'm acquainted, only one is in it solely for the meat. It's the idea of a freezer full of venison and the regular partaking thereof that is his motivation. He's not in it for the kill.

It is pleasurable to retell the story of the hunt because of the different aspects of the hunt (for instance, read one of my former posts about my first squirrel hunt with dad... to me, every dad should do something like that with their sons... and in this culture, WV, this is what we do. Also mounting the animal or making a rug, falls under this for it then becomes a talking piece allowing us to talk about the hunt, and raise the fond memories)

You can do that camping, or building a treehouse. Don't gotta kill things for fun for male bonding.

NOW...Non hunters who are not vegans are no different... although you can give me examples of every one except one, of the above by not killing the animals, It is impossible for you to enjoy, get a thrill, or take pleasure in a meal that includes meat unless SOMEONE Kills the animal you are about to partake in.

Completely off topic.

So let's say it is a sin to enjoy killing an animal... then this verse would apply to non-hunters who eat meat...
Again, it is impossible to get pleasure from steak, ribs, hamburgers, or any meat unless the animal is killed.. So if it is a sin to get pleasure from killing an animal, it is equally a sin by enjoying the benefits of the kill.

So, again, the butcher should get a thrill out of sticking pigs? You're sick. I don't think I'd buy meat from a man like that. Would you?

 

[Mexdeaf]

PD: I sure hope your butcher hates his job.

JDF: No, that's different. It's OK for Webdog to pay somebody else to kill animals for his enjoyment, it's just not OK for us to harvest animals to feed our families.

Is that why you take your kills to the locker, because it's run by men who really get a thrill out of cutting them up?

I have a cousin who is a butcher and he gets a thrill out of a job well done.

You see a mountain, I see a molehill. If hunting or butchering or boiling live Maine lobster disturbs you so much, don't do it.

By the way, I shot three men last week and got a thrill out of it.






Of course, they were all paper 'men' at the gun range but it's still killing... right....

 

[blackbird]

Whatever. It's the kill that drives them to the woods. Many of them go alone and sit in tree stands for hours in the hopes of making a kill.

Let me ask a question: How many of you "hunters" actually track your prey?

When I'm out deer hunting--I bring along my pocket New Testament--I could be sitting there for hours reading my Bible

And yes--the game is actually "tracked"---with deer--you look for scrapeings and crossings, etc-----I like Rabbit hunting ---its exciting to watch the dogs run

 

[Aaron]

You see a mountain, I see a molehill.

That's because I'm closer to it and can see it more clearly.

If hunting or butchering or boiling live Maine lobster disturbs you so much, don't do it.

You obviously have a problem with reading comprehension.

 

[Mexdeaf]

You obviously have a problem with reading comprehension.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Whatever. It's the kill that drives them to the woods. Many of them go alone and sit in tree stands for hours in the hopes of making a kill.

Let me ask a question: How many of you "hunters" actually track your prey?

I am not sure why you put quotations around hunters, but yes, most hunters track their game. Deer hunting can be done a lot of different ways, but the most common is to spend time scouting for the deer looking for travel patterns, and sign such as poop, scrapes, and tracks. Then when then hunter believes he has a good location he/she can still hunt the area from the ground or from a tree stand.

A hunter can stalk the deer trying to catch up to it but this is more difficult due to your sound and scent.

I prefer still hunting from a tree stand as it keeps me quiet and my scent stays off the ground. I look for creek bottoms where there is a rich food source, and during the rut will use doe estrus and other allurments to attract the deer. I usually carry a grunt call and deer bleet call as well.

To make an assumption as to what drives a person to hunt or not is rather presumptuous. If you think hunters have some sort of sadistic pleasure in killing your living in some weird parallel universe.

I hunt because I enjoy the hunt which included killing the animal. It is godly, holy, and biblical to kill animals for food. I would consider a hunter who hunts but does not make use of the animal to be irresponsible and unethical. There are programs where hunters who hunt but do not want to make use of the meat to donate the meat so that it can go to needy families.

For a Christian to suggest that hunting game is unscriptural has an impossible point to prove. I can only conclude that they are influenced by liberal culture rather than Scripture.

 

[sag38]

This doesn't come from our liberal culture as much as it displays a holier than thou attitude. If you don't want to hunt then don't. But, don't place you extra Biblical stance on everyone else and then belittle them when they don't agree.

 

[Aaron]

There are programs where hunters who hunt but do not want to make use of the meat to donate the meat so that it can go to needy families.

And what of those hunters? What are they in it for? Charity?

 

[ReformedBaptist]

And what of those hunters? What are they in it for? Charity?

You would have to ask them. I assume they enjoy hunting and have no plans or desires to use the meat for themselves so they donate it to others. If I were to ever reach my quota limit for the season I would probably join the program myself to continue to hunt. Any animal I killed would be donated so others could enjoy them.

 

[Aaron]

You just can't get yourself to say that they're in it for the sheer pleasure of killing, can you? Not even when it's painfully obvious.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

You just can't get yourself to say that they're in it for the sheer pleasure of killing, can you? Not even when it's painfully obvious.

I can't presume to judge the heart motivations of people. As I said to you before, I find it very weird to think that hunters have some twisted sadistic motivation to kill animals. That idea reminds of how serial killers get their start....

I really think you have to be motivated by something else to make that wild assumption.

Nor can you prove biblically that it is immoral to kill animals. Most hunters I know hunt because they love the hunt and enjoy the meat of whatever they are hunting. Those who hunt nuisance animals such as bobcats and coyotes and crow, enjoy the hunt but don't use the meat.

I am not really sure what your problem is with hunting. Is it just the idea of killing an animal?

 

[webdog]

I find it very weird to think that hunters have some twisted sadistic motivation to kill animals. That idea reminds of how serial killers get their start....

Google some hunting videos and you might not find it so "weird". To whisper "yyeeesss" while watching a deer with an arrow through it's neck stumble around until it dies is sick. To kill squirrels "to pass the time" waiting for a deer is sick. To wait until 2 raccoon are lined up so you can kill both with one arrow is sick. Justify it how you wish, but the motives of all hunters are not as pure as you claim.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Google some hunting videos and you might not find it so "weird". To whisper "yyeeesss" while watching a deer with an arrow through it's neck stumble around until it dies is sick. To kill squirrels "to pass the time" waiting for a deer is sick. To wait until 2 raccoon are lined up so you can kill both with one arrow is sick. Justify it how you wish, but the motives of all hunters are not as pure as you claim.

Your an odd lot webdog. You know that I never said that the motives of all hunters are pure. Never claimed that. In fact, no one can. And you know that too.

Let me make this PLAIN. I LOVE hunting. If I could kill two with one arrow, that would be awesome. Double the meat. I would prefer to shoot my deer with a rifle or shotgun, but the state prohibits that in my county. So, I have to bow hunt them, and animals bow shot take longer to die. Do I feel elation when I have shot one? Yesssssssssssssssss...

Do I enjoy the suffering of the animal. Don't be a retard.

I can't even dispatch the animal with a firearm in my county. I either have to let it bleed out or cut its throat...which is dangerous for a hunter to approach wounded game.

Do you eat any meat at all?

 

[Johnv]

I think it's important to discern between taking satisfaction in hunting, and taking satisfaction in watching an animal suffer. I don't pretend to equate one to another. I've taken my son fishing, and wouldn't think that the satisfaction felt when pulling a fish out of the water is in any way akin to having joy over a fish suffering.

We need to discern between the tow so as not to falsely accuse the brethren. But we also need to discern between the two so as not to take pleasure in an animal's suffering as well. A hunter who does not discern such needs to ask himself why he is hunting. But a nonhunter who isn't discerning such need to ask himself if he is appropriately judgint his brethren.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I think it's important to discern between taking satisfaction in hunting, and taking satisfaction in watching an animal suffer. I don't pretend to equate one to another. I've taken my son fishing, and wouldn't think that the satisfaction felt when pulling a fish out of the water is in any way akin to having joy over a fish suffering.

We need to discern between the tow so as not to falsely accuse the brethren. But we also need to discern between the two so as not to take pleasure in an animal's suffering as well.

I think that is the point. I can't say people haven't taken pleasure in the suffering of an animal, I don't know, but I don't know any hunter to takes pleasure in the suffering of any game. I certainly don't.