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Ergun Caner controversy
- Thread starter Dale-c
- Start date
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Yeah, there has been some question for a while now. It seems to have come to a head over the past several weeks.
Apparently some Muslim guy has started a website devoted to "debunking" Dr. Caner's ministry, testimony, and education. I'm not gonna list it but its easy to find. Anyhoo, this fellow has laid out some very specific charges. Of these charges, I can't speak to the ones concerning Dr. Caner's personal testimony, the educational questions are the ones that are really sticking.
Long story short, Dr. Caner has had some question for a while now about his disappearing, reappearing doctoral degrees. One of them is a ThD from the University of South Africa in Pretoria. It is an earned ThD though in several places (i.e. publications, bio, faculty reviews, etc) it is referred to as a PhD. The other issue is the disappearing, reappearing honorary doctorate from Emmanuel Baptist University that was claimed to be earned and then said it was honorary...it goes on like this for a while. Essentially, Emmanuel is a cheap, punked out unaccredited diploma mill school. Several big-whig SBC leaders have doctoral degrees from Emmanuel (I'm not naming names.) Anyhoo, this Muslim guy is up in arms about this.
Essentially my read on the sit-rep is this: 1) there has been some need for clarification from Dr. Caner for a while now (many have asked and been ignored) 2) this Muslim guy is trying to go after Dr. Caner using any tool he can find.
Like it or not Dr. Caner has an earned PhD/ThD (what's the difference?) from a good school overseas. Now would I be happier if he had an earned PhD from a North American (or even British) School? Sure. But that ain't how it rolls. No big deal imho.
There isn't a big difference between a ThD and a PhD. I earned the second from a very good school in North America. Several of my professors had ThDs, its an old-timey thing really. Used to be the D.D. was huge...until places started handing them out as honorary doctorates.
All that said it's a big deal now because Dr. Caner didn't do anything about and when he did it stunk up to high heavens. He released a memo to LU faculty and told people they could get a copy of his detailed reply. Then they withheld the detailed reply and made everyone go through a 10 minute questioning and they were not allowed to copy it. That made people go "huh?" Then the Liberty muckety-mucks did the whole "circle the wagons around the leader thing" and that got students sorta mad. It got big because Dr. Caner didn't reply properly to begin with. Just my opinion here.
All that said...I think this is what you're talking about. Other than that it is the whole standing up James White thing and acting like a fool right before a debate Drs. Caner called...but I don't think that's it.
Apparently some Muslim guy has started a website devoted to "debunking" Dr. Caner's ministry, testimony, and education. I'm not gonna list it but its easy to find. Anyhoo, this fellow has laid out some very specific charges. Of these charges, I can't speak to the ones concerning Dr. Caner's personal testimony, the educational questions are the ones that are really sticking.
Long story short, Dr. Caner has had some question for a while now about his disappearing, reappearing doctoral degrees. One of them is a ThD from the University of South Africa in Pretoria. It is an earned ThD though in several places (i.e. publications, bio, faculty reviews, etc) it is referred to as a PhD. The other issue is the disappearing, reappearing honorary doctorate from Emmanuel Baptist University that was claimed to be earned and then said it was honorary...it goes on like this for a while. Essentially, Emmanuel is a cheap, punked out unaccredited diploma mill school. Several big-whig SBC leaders have doctoral degrees from Emmanuel (I'm not naming names.) Anyhoo, this Muslim guy is up in arms about this.
Essentially my read on the sit-rep is this: 1) there has been some need for clarification from Dr. Caner for a while now (many have asked and been ignored) 2) this Muslim guy is trying to go after Dr. Caner using any tool he can find.
Like it or not Dr. Caner has an earned PhD/ThD (what's the difference?) from a good school overseas. Now would I be happier if he had an earned PhD from a North American (or even British) School? Sure. But that ain't how it rolls. No big deal imho.
There isn't a big difference between a ThD and a PhD. I earned the second from a very good school in North America. Several of my professors had ThDs, its an old-timey thing really. Used to be the D.D. was huge...until places started handing them out as honorary doctorates.
All that said it's a big deal now because Dr. Caner didn't do anything about and when he did it stunk up to high heavens. He released a memo to LU faculty and told people they could get a copy of his detailed reply. Then they withheld the detailed reply and made everyone go through a 10 minute questioning and they were not allowed to copy it. That made people go "huh?" Then the Liberty muckety-mucks did the whole "circle the wagons around the leader thing" and that got students sorta mad. It got big because Dr. Caner didn't reply properly to begin with. Just my opinion here.
All that said...I think this is what you're talking about. Other than that it is the whole standing up James White thing and acting like a fool right before a debate Drs. Caner called...but I don't think that's it.
The Muslim guy has found his mark -- and he has an unerring aim. But the main issue isn't his questionable educational background -- though I am not lightly dismissing that.
Ergun Caner has lied on too many public occasions. He can't erase what he has already said in print and captured in youtube snips.
He has said to some crowds that he was raised in Turkey and called a sand monkey. He was born In Switzerland and came to America at the age of four.
He said he learned about America by watching old shows like The Andy Griffith program and pro-rassling shows. His claims are baseless. He basically developed a persona after 9/11. He became a sought-after speaker -- an expert on Islam -- one who maintained that he was terrorist-oriented.
His lies are so many they are hard to keep track of. He can't begin to sort them out either. It's one thing to mangle one's words -- but he deliberately chose to deceive on numerous occasions. Perhaps he tried at the time to rationalize it for the dramatic effect -- and for the cause of Christ. But Christ is not honored by lies.
Besides all his deception he is a disgrace in the pulpit -- very certainly not an expositional preacher. He mocks various groups, rants at times and brings Liberty into disrepute. No Christian leader of his capacity should behave as he does on a regular basis. Have you heard about the tazer incident?
The man should have been man enough to have resigned his position months ago.
The longer that time goes by and he doesn't confess his very public sins -- the worse it becomes and the non-Christian world will be watching the whole sordid process.
People like Pastor Tim Rogers and Peter Lumpkins who defend Caner without being upfront about the issues makes the whole situation even worse. The latter-named individual is not a class act to say the least.
This is indeed the main thrust of this person's criticism. You are definitely correct in pointing this out. I was speaking from my experience with my alma mater.
Rippon said:
He is definitely a very entertaining speaker, though too rough and judgmental for my tastes. His demand skyrocketted after 9/11, I wonder if it is due in part to his partnership with Dr. Falwell.
Rippon said:
He is primarily an entertaining speaker. Some of the stuff he says, I guess he figures he can get away with it because he casts himself as a minority. He got our leadership into a lot of trouble at a church I served where he spoke. During his message he openly made fun of hispanics, asians, and african-americans (and yes he did use the "n" word.) We had a ton of emails and phone calls following his talk. He was very engaging, but just way over the top. He can get away with this stuff in Lynchburg but not outside in the real world.
Rippon said:
Well for what its worth, he is doing good things with the seminary. I have several peers on faculty there and have heard good things about many of his moves. To that end I'm not so sure resignation is necessary, but hopefully this is a humbling experience that brings about positive change.
Goes to show honesty is the only policy.
In the old days and in some areas, they used to call this type of thing "evangelisticly speaking" when evangelists told things as facts that were not. They justified it on the basis that it supported the gospel points they were making. Caner is not the first one; this type of thing has been around for a long time. However, in this day of recording sermons, things can be checked out and shown to be false.
Speaking of this type of thing being around for a while, Paul spoke about false prophets going through Corinth in II Cor.
Speaking of this type of thing being around for a while, Paul spoke about false prophets going through Corinth in II Cor.
Do you have any sources for your accusations?
Oh how the liberals would love to take him down.
FR7 Baptist
Active Member
I've read a lot about this and Caner seems to be less than truthful. I'm trying to reserve judgment until he responds, but he is apparently unwilling to do so in any real way. But it seems that with his statements he has painted himself in a corner. Back in June 2005 when I was in the high school choir at my church we went to Chicago to sing at a 4-day revival at a church with Caner preaching. Even then, there's just always been something about the guy that seems "off." I've felt that way every time I've heard him preach, which has to be 4 or 5 times not counting that revival.
Oh how the liberals would love to take him down.
Typical response.
Notice how some will not question the integrity of Ergun Caner despite the easily accessible materials that show his contradictions and "embellishments". No, they go after the ones who think Caner should be held accountable for his obvious "non-truths". James White was right when he wrote of the "circle the wagon mentality of the SBC.
Well, I refuted, factually, fairly, and thoroughly, false statements made by Ergun Mehmet Caner, President of Liberty Theological Seminary, on the Pastor's Perspective radio program (which is broadcast nationally), wherein he says I engage in "formal" debates that are little more than versions of the Jerry Springer Show, and in response you get the "circling of the wagons" syndrome that is so often the hallmark of the Southern Baptist Convention.
http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=3772
http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=3772
James White is now a liberal.:laugh:
Well, I refuted, factually, fairly, and thoroughly, false statements made by Ergun Mehmet Caner, President of Liberty Theological Seminary, on the Pastor's Perspective radio program (which is broadcast nationally), wherein he says I engage in "formal" debates that are little more than versions of the Jerry Springer Show, and in response you get the "circling of the wagons" syndrome that is so often the hallmark of the Southern Baptist Convention.
http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=3772
http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=3772
James White is now a liberal.:laugh:
What is typical is the attack
FR7 Baptist
Active Member
According to this blog his real name is Ergun Michael Caner:
http://blog.witnessesuntome.com/2010/03/ergun-caners-secret-biography.html
You heard it through the sour-grape-vine:laugh:
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Oh how the liberals would love to take him down.
It isn't a liberal or conservative thing.
As a current student of LU, I don't want the university to be associated with these kind of allegations. If they are untrue, then they need to be clearly addressed. If they are true, Dr. Caner should probably resign.
It may not be for you but the allegations are sourced from muslim hate sites. White and Ascol has been in a viscous back and forth for some time now. So because of Caners position on the reformed theology they turn to sites who are after Caner because of his view on Islam.
Make no mistake about it. This is nothing but nasty backbiting because of a debate they once had. And now our reformed brothers on this site are willing to carry on these unfounded and not credible allegations most likely because of Caners view on reformed theology as well. You would do well to research the problems between White, Ascol, and Caner. I assure you these allegations are not about finding out the truth. This is a personal attack and the motivation is revenge. Now it has reached this board. Everyone should be ashamed.
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I am aware of the strained relationships.
However, truth can still come from biased sources.
I simply would like for Dr. Caner to address the issues. If the accusations are unfounded, surely he can clarify. If they are true, then he should face consequences.
That is like calling a terrorist a bad guy. But I suppose you need to do that to dismiss it.
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I'm simply trying to be even-handed here. I'm not saying that anything is true or untrue. Let Dr. Caner respond to the accusations, and then we can have some clarity.
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