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Another question for Calvinists part2

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charles_creech78

New Member
Originally Posted by charles_creech78 View Post
Amen amen amen!!!!! Its just amazing how man thinks that he knows what God can do and can't do![COLOR="Red"
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]Webdog Quote:
...um...you mean in the same way your theology also claims to do?[/COLOR][/COLOR]


Reply to Webdod !No not my theology! Its the word of God: Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. I say he can do all things! The word of God says he can do all things. Where in the scripture says he can't? Where does your theology stand that he can't?
 
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Robert Snow

New Member
charles_creech78 said:
Originally Posted by charles_creech78 View Post
Amen amen amen!!!!! Its just amazing how man thinks that he knows what God can do and can't do![COLOR="Red"
[COLOR="Red"]
]Webdog Quote:
...um...you mean in the same way your theology also claims to do?[/COLOR][/COLOR]


Reply to Webdod !No not my theology! Its the word of God: Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. I say he can do all things! The word of God says he can do all things. Where in the scripture says he can't? Where does your theology stand that he can't?
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God cannot lie.

Heb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Scripture says God doesn't tempt us...can God tempt us?

The irony is in the reformed camp the logic stands "if God is truly sovereign, then x,y and z cannot occur, or a, b, and c must happen first".

CC78, Your theology does the same thing you accuse ours of doing.
 
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charles_creech78

New Member
webdog said:
Scripture says God doesn't tempt us...can God tempt us?

The irony is in the reformed camp the logic stands "if God is truly sovereign, then x,y and z cannot occur, or a, b, and c must happen first".

CC78, Your theology does the same thing you accuse ours of doing.
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That has nothing to do with God temping us! It has to do with God having all power! If GOD wanted YOU WEBDOG to do his will can you stop it? Yes or no? If yes then how is it Gods will? Jesus said I came to do they will. Who's will? Gods will! Now who's will would of it been if Christ did not do it? But what is Gods will? That non should perish but ALL COME TO REPENTANCES. He has COMMANDED men every where to repent. For what is your duty and my duty? Why did he make us? For the whole duty of man is TO FEAR GOD and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS! For surely he will bring every work evil or good into judgement . I gave you scripture not theology! Show me webdog in the scripture that he has not the power? How can God not rule what he made? Explain this to me! Not your theology. (Scripture) Show me he has not the power!
 
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charles_creech78

New Member
Does not the potter have power over the clay? Honor and glory and power to the most high God! Do you need to see if that is a scripture or theology. I would be happy to give you scripture!
 
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Grace&Truth

New Member
charles_creech78 said:
Does not the potter have power over the clay? Honor and glory and power to the most high God! Do you need to see if that is a scripture or theology. I would be happy to give you scripture!
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I don't believe that it is an issue that God has the Power....it is how He uses that Power that is of interest. So how is this relevent to this issue. Are you saying that man is passive in how God works in one's life?
 
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charles_creech78

New Member
Grace&Truth said:
Why would God have to chastise us when He has complete power to make us perfect?
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Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Are you saying God don't love you or that you are not a son of God?
Seems to me that if he loved us he would not give us free will. Because I know in my self (MY FLESH) dwells no good thing and without him I could do nothing. I would still be lost with out him. If it was my will then I would be going to a devils hell. I did nothing good! What vain man that I am! God bless.
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
charles_creech78 said:
That has nothing to do with God temping us! It has to do with God having all power! If GOD wanted YOU WEBDOG to do his will can you stop it? Yes or no? If yes then how is it Gods will? Jesus said I came to do they will. Who's will? Gods will! Now who's will would of it been if Christ did not do it? But what is Gods will? That non should perish but ALL COME TO REPENTANCES. He has COMMANDED men every where to repent. For what is your duty and my duty? Why did he make us? For the whole duty of man is TO FEAR GOD and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS! For surely he will bring every work evil or good into judgement . I gave you scripture not theology! Show me webdog in the scripture that he has not the power? How can God not rule what he made? Explain this to me! Not your theology. (Scripture) Show me he has not the power!
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You are failing to grasp the simple idea that if God has voluntarily given up "power" as He did in becoming human, He still remains sovereign.

What do you make of Jesus lamenting over Jerusalem? Clearly you have Jesus "wanting" to do something...BUT...due to the people's unwillingness Jesus was unable to do what He wanted. Did He lose His sovereignty? NO!! HE decreed how it would be!
 
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Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
charles_creech78 said:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Are you saying God don't love you or that you are not a son of God?
Seems to me that if he loved us he would not give us free will. Because I know in my self (MY FLESH) dwells no good thing and without him I could do nothing. I would still be lost with out him. If it was my will then I would be going to a devils hell. I did nothing good! What vain man that I am! God bless.
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You didn't answer the question: It is not disputed that God chastens those He loves.

BUT, as you say, if it is only Him that causes us to love Him, then why does He need to chasten us?

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Edited to add: You also make an interesting statement with "Seems to me that if He loved us, He would not give us free will."

Is the opposite true? If He gave us free will, does that mean He doesn't love us?
 
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charles_creech78

New Member
webdog said:
You are failing to grasp the simple idea that if God has voluntarily given up "power" as He did in becoming human, He still remains sovereign.

What do you make of Jesus lamenting over Jerusalem? Clearly you have Jesus "wanting" to do something...BUT...due to the people's unwillingness Jesus was unable to do what He wanted. Did He lose His sovereignty? NO!! HE decreed how it would be!
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What ever! Not much of Gods will. Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. He still had the POWER :BangHead: I am done!
 
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charles_creech78

New Member
Don said:
You didn't answer the question: It is not disputed that God chastens those He loves.

BUT, as you say, if it is only Him that causes us to love Him, then why does He need to chasten us?

-----
Edited to add: You also make an interesting statement with "Seems to me that if He loved us, He would not give us free will."

Is the opposite true? If He gave us free will, does that mean He doesn't love us?
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The goodness of God leads us to repent. I love him because he first loved me. He chastises us Because he love's us. If you see your child do something that will harm him will you not step in and stop him. Same thing with God! If you don't stop him or chastise him then you don't have any love for him. Same thing with God!
 
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Grace&Truth

New Member
charles_creech78 said:
The goodness of God leads us to repent. I love him because he first loved me. He chastises us Because he love's us. If you see your child do something that will harm him will you not step in and stop him. Same thing with God! If you don't stop him or chastise him then you don't have any love for him. Same thing with God!
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So in other words....we [as His child] have the ability to resist His Will in any given situation? So therefore, as our Parent He does not force us but He chastises when we resist? So we have the ability to not always do God's Will? And let me add, do we not also have the ability to resist even unto death [and yet be saved]?
 
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charles_creech78

New Member
I love my son I would not let him do anything that will harm him. If I let him do what ever he wanted to. Then I wouldn't be much of a father. I guess I could go as far as saying you would not be much of a son if you did not obey your father.
 
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charles_creech78

New Member
Grace&Truth said:
So in other words....we [as His child] have the ability to resist His Will in any given situation? So therefore, as our Parent He does not force us but He chastises when we resist? So we have the ability to not always do God's Will? And let me add, do we not also have the ability to resist even unto death [and yet be saved]?
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Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
 
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Grace&Truth

New Member
charles_creech78 said:
I love my son I would not let him do anything that will harm him. If I let him do what ever he wanted to. Then I wouldn't be much of a father. I guess I could go as far as saying you would not be much of a son if you did not obey your father.
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Agreed, this would not be a very good son, but he would still be a son.
 
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