Another question for Calvinists part2

[charles_creech78]

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Rom 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
Rom 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Where in all this is he talking about government and law?

 

[Grace&Truth]

Where in that verse is it talking about government and law? Show me! What kind of damnation is it? If it is not eternal?

Who do you believe the higher powers are? Power means "Authority" in this passage [look up the word in your e-sword]. Also look at the whole context, verse 3 & 4 tell us this:

Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

 

[charles_creech78]

Who do you believe the higher powers are? Power means "Authority" in this passage [look up the word in your e-sword]. Also look at the whole context, verse 3 & 4 tell us this:

Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

The higher power is GOD! Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. (Ministers)
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. Rom 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. (THE WORD OF GOD)! Where does there power come from? Who's power is it ? What power are they resisting?

 

[charles_creech78]

Answer my ? other wise I am done Talking to you!

 

[Amy.G]

The higher power is GOD! Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. (Ministers)
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. Rom 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. (THE WORD OF GOD)! Where does there power come from? Who's power is it ?

Oh my. Charles you have completely misunderstood this passage of scripture. It is speaking of governments, which are appointed by God.

Albert Barnes commentary:

The higher powers. The magistracy; the supreme government. It undoubtedly here refers to the Roman magistracy, and has relation not so much to the rulers as to the supreme authority which was established as the constitution of government. Comp. Mt 10:1; 28:18.

 

[charles_creech78]

Oh my. Charles you have completely misunderstood this passage of scripture. It is speaking of governments, which are appointed by God.

Albert Barnes commentary:

The higher powers. The magistracy; the supreme government. It undoubtedly here refers to the Roman magistracy, and has relation not so much to the rulers as to the supreme authority which was established as the constitution of government. Comp. Mt 10:1; 28:18.

What power is HIGHER THEN GODS????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
If you are not resisting Gods power then you are not resisting the rest. Look I am done. Fly bird fly right over there head!

 

[Amy.G]

What power is HIGHER THEN GODS????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
If you are not resisting Gods power then you are not resisting the rest. Look I am done. Fly bird fly right over there head!

I suggest you talk to you pastor about your interpretation. I think he will set you straight.

 

[Winman]

What is your point?

You and several others have said God can do whatever he likes and that he is so powerful he can do anything, that absolutely nothing is impossile for him.

So I asked you if God can create God.

Can he?

 

[Grace&Truth]

The higher power is GOD! Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. (Ministers)
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. Rom 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. (THE WORD OF GOD)! Where does there power come from? Who's power is it ? What power are they resisting?

Ummmmm, NO.....notice that powers is plural, this is referring to those who God has given power (authority) over us therefore they are higher then we are. This authority (given to them) is of God. I think you will get it if you read it by the word authority instead of power.

 

[charles_creech78]

You and several others have said God can do whatever he likes and that he is so powerful he can do anything, that absolutely nothing is impossile for him.

So I asked you if God can create God.

Can he?

Why would God make another God when he wants no other Gods before him?

 

[charles_creech78]

Ummmmm, NO.....notice that powers is plural, this is referring to those who God has given power (authority) over us therefore they are higher then we are. This authority (given to them) is of God. I think you will get it if you read it by the word authority instead of power.

You just said GOD gave them (authority). So what authority am I obeying if I listen to the government and the laws? If God gave them that authority or power who am I not resisting if I obey? Am I obeying God and his power for there is no other power but ordain by God! It is Gods power ether way you look at it.

 

[Grace&Truth]

You just said GOD gave them (authority). So what authority am I obey if I listen to the government and the laws? If God gave them that authority or power who am I not resisting if I obey? Am I not obeying God and his power for there is no other power but ordain by God! It is Gods power ether way you look at it.

Yes we are to obey God's authority that He has delegated to human government (rulers). These verses are not referring to God's Power as found in Rom. 1:16,


G1411
δύναμις
dunamis
doo'-nam-is
From G1410; force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself): - ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.

In this passage (Rom. 13) power means "Authority"

G1849
ἐξουσία
exousia
ex-oo-see'-ah
From G1832 (in the sense of ability); privilege, that is, (subjectively) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (objectively) mastery (concretely magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence: - authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength.

Two different Greek words.

 

[Grace&Truth]

You just said GOD gave them (authority). So what authority am I obeying if I listen to the government and the laws? If God gave them that authority or power who am I not resisting if I obey? Am I obeying God and his power for there is no other power but ordain by God! It is Gods power ether way you look at it.

Ultimately yes you are obeying God. But Rom. 13 has nothing to do with salvation or eternal damnation. All it is doing is explaining to us that we need to obey the "Authorities" God has placed over us.

 

[Winman]

You and several others have said God can do whatever he likes and that he is so powerful he can do anything, that absolutely nothing is impossile for him.

So I asked you if God can create God.

Can he?

Since you would not answer this publically, but sent a deflective question to me, I will answer here.

God cannot do everything, somethings are impossible even for God.

God cannot create himself because he was not created. He has always existed and always will. So it is impossible to create himself or anything equal to himself, because that would be a creation, and God is not a creation, he is the Creator.

The scriptures also tell us God cannot lie, he cannot sin, he cannot deny himself.

So you and others need to quit saying God can do anything. Even God has some limits.

 

[charles_creech78]

Ultimately yes you are obeying God. But Rom. 13 has nothing to do with salvation or eternal damnation. All it is doing is explaining to us that we need to obey the "Authorities" God has placed over us.

Yes but it is still one power and one authority! I never said anything about salvation in the scripture. I don't think someone who is saved would resist Gods power or authority. By the way what did you mean by he was not talking about eternal damnation? What damnation is he talking about?

 

[charles_creech78]

Since you would not answer this publically, but sent a deflective question to me, I will answer here.

God cannot do everything, somethings are impossible even for God.

God cannot create himself because he was not created. He has always existed and always will. So it is impossible to create himself or anything equal to himself, because that would be a creation, and God is not a creation, he is the Creator.

The scriptures also tell us God cannot lie, he cannot sin, he cannot deny himself.

So you and others need to quit saying God can do anything. Even God has some limits.

You just said God cannot lie!
I take that back!

 

[Winman]

You just said God cannot lie!
Mar 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. So which one of you is a lie?

Well obviously you are misinterpreting the true meaning of this verse. It is impossible for God to create himself or anything equal to himself, as anything he would create would be a creation, and God is not a creation, he was not created, but has always existed.

That is simple logic.

So you misinterpret this verse.

 

[charles_creech78]

Well obviously you are misinterpreting the true meaning of this verse. It is impossible for God to create himself or anything equal to himself, as anything he would create would be a creation, and God is not a creation, he was not created, but has always existed.

That is simple logic.

So you misinterpret this verse.

You know what you are correct! I am sorry brother. I see what you have been saying. You are correct . You have been more righteous then I. I have told you he can do all things and that is false. He surely can't deny himself nor can he lie. I am truly sorry.

 

[Grace&Truth]

Yes but it is still one power and one authority! I never said anything about salvation in the scripture.

Please refer back to #18, #20, & #21.

I don't think someone who is saved would resist Gods power or authority.

Then why did Paul have to instruct the believers not to do this?

By the way what did you mean by he was not talking about eternal damnation? What damnation is he talking about?

The legal judgement for the crime as handed out by those authorities placed over us.

G2917
κρίμα
krima
kree'-mah
From G2919; a decision (the function or the effect, for or against [“crime”]): - avenge, condemned, condemnation, damnation, + go to law, judgment.

 

[charles_creech78]

The legal judgement for the crime as handed out by those authorities placed over us.

G2917
κρίμα
krima
kree'-mah
From G2919; a decision (the function or the effect, for or against [“crime”]): - avenge, condemned, condemnation, damnation, + go to law, judgment.

Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. the judgment of God!