Few presidents would qualify under birther bill

[Crabtownboy]

So the four babies born on I-95 between Baltimore and Annapolis would not qualify to be on a future presidential ballet in Arizona. Hmmm, and those born at home or in birthing centers with only mid-wives in attendance.

I wonder how many Tea Party members would be disqualified under the proposed law? It is very interesting that Bush would not have qualified to be on the ballot in Arizona.

Interesting also that perhaps Jimmy Carter was the first president who would have qualified to run for president if Arizona's proposed law had been the law of our land since the beginning.

Near as I can tell, the first presidential candidate in American history who would qualify to get on the ballot in Arizona under rules proposed by the latest “birther” bill being considered at the legislature is… Jimmy Carter.



Really.



Among the requirements listed in Rep. Judy Burges' bill is one requiring each candidate to produce “an original long form birth certificate that includes the date and place of birth, the name of the hospital and the attending physician and signatures of the witnesses in attendance.”



I quick skim of presidential history indicates that the first American president to have been born in a hospital was Carter.



Ronald Reagan, who came after Carter, was born at home. Uh-oh. And so was the first President Bush.



http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/EJMontini/116076

 

[targus]

How do you reach your conclusions when a bill has not even been passed yet?

 

[David Lamb]

I like the idea of a presidential ballet. Do the candidates dress up in white costumes, and dance to the music of Tchaikovsky? Oh no, it's the USA, so it would be the music of Aaron Copeland, I suppose!

Sorry, Crabtownboy, to poke fun at your typo. I make plenty, so please feel free to poke fun at any of them. :laugh:

 

[Crabtownboy]

I like the idea of a presidential ballet. Do the candidates dress up in white costumes, and dance to the music of Tchaikovsky? Oh no, it's the USA, so it would be the music of Aaron Copeland, I suppose!

Sorry, Crabtownboy, to poke fun at your typo. I make plenty, so please feel free to poke fun at any of them. :laugh:

No problem David. Actually the mistake is quite funny.

Copeland would be nice as would Grofé ... or maybe Gershwin or maybe even Bernstein.

The birthers in the state government in Arizona may realize, once it is pointed out to them, the ridiculousness of this bill and amend it so that at least 1 in 1,000,000 US citizens would qualify. It really is quite funny the way it is being proposed as the moment.

I don't know if Sarah qualifies under the proposed clauses. She was born in Sandpoint, Idaho ... but I do not know if she was born in a hospital and, even if she was, if two doctors were requited to sign the l-------o-------n-------g form or not. Some of the Arizona legislators may have to do a Pirouette or other ballet step and jump before this is over. LOL

Stay tuned. It is a real comedy.

 

[targus]

So proving constitutional eligibility to hold the office of President is comical to you?

 

[David Lamb]

So proving constitutional eligibility to hold the office of President is comical to you?

Not at all, and I never said it was. I just saw the funny side of Crabtownboy's "ballet" for "ballot".

I apologise if that came across to you or anyone else that any country's political arrangements should be seen as comical. I certainly didn't mean that.

 

[Don]

Anyone have the text of the bill? I did an internet search, but can't seem to find anything that shows the exact wording of the bill, or its amendments.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I believe this is the current one:

Note: The clause concerning dual citizenship would disqualify many children of missionaries. There are numerous countries that consider them as citizens because they were born there ... and as their parents are US natural born citizens the US also considers them as citizens. My wife's room mate in college had dual citizenship, Brazil and the US.

I worked with a man who married a French citizen. France considered their daughter as a French citizen even though she was born in the US and never visited France. Guess she would not qualify either.

REFERENCE TITLE: presidential candidates; affidavit of qualifications









State of Arizona

House of Representatives

Fiftieth Legislature

First Regular Session

2011





HB 2544



Introduced by

Representatives Burges, Gowan, Harper, Seel, Smith D, Stevens: Barton, Crandell, Dial, Fann, Farnsworth, Fillmore, Goodale, Gray R, Judd, Kavanagh, Lesko, McLain, Mesnard, Montenegro, Olson, Proud, Urie, Weiers J, Yee, Senators Allen, Antenori, Biggs, Bundgaard, Gould, Gray, Griffin, Klein, Melvin, Murphy, Nelson, Pearce R, Pierce S, Shooter, Smith, Yarbrough





AN ACT



amending title 16, chapter 4, article 6, Arizona Revised Statutes, by adding section 16-507.01; relating to conduct of elections.





(TEXT OF BILL BEGINS ON NEXT PAGE)




Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:

Section 1. Title 16, chapter 4, article 6, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by adding section 16-507.01, to read:

START_STATUTE16-507.01. Presidential candidates; affidavit of qualifications

A. The national political party committee for a candidate for president for a party that is entitled to continued representation on the ballot shall provide to the secretary of state written notice of that political party's nomination of its candidates for president and vice‑president. Within ten days after submittal of the names of the candidates, the national political party committee shall submit an affidavit of the presidential candidate in which the presidential candidate states the candidate's citizenship and age and shall append to the affidavit documents that prove that the candidate is a natural born citizen, prove the candidate's age and prove that the candidate meets the residency requirements for President of the United States as prescribed in article II, section 1, Constitution of the United States.



B. The affidavit prescribed in subsection A shall include references to and attachment of all of the following, which shall be sworn to under penalty of perjury:

1. An original long form birth certificate that includes the date and place of birth, the names of the hospital and the attending physician and signatures of the witnesses in attendance.

2. A sworn statement attesting that the candidate has not held dual or multiple citizenship and that the candidate's allegiance is solely to the United States of America.

3. A sworn statement or form that identifies the candidate's places of residence in the United States for the preceding fourteen years.

C. If both the candidate and the national political party committee for that candidate fail to submit and swear to the documents prescribed in this section, the secretary of state shall not place that presidential candidate's name on the ballot in this state.

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/50leg/1r/bills/hb2544p.htm

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Where does the prohibition on dual citizenship of natural born citizens come from?

My son is a natural born US citizen and a citizen of Ireland. Is there a constitutional prohibition on him becoming president?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Where does the prohibition on dual citizenship of natural born citizens come from?

My son is a natural born US citizen and a citizen of Ireland. Is there a constitutional prohibition on him becoming president?

In the proposed law I pasted, item #2 says:

2. A sworn statement attesting that the candidate has not held dual or multiple citizenship and that the candidate's allegiance is solely to the United States of America.

My guess is that they dislike Obama so much that they are trying to write this so he cannot qualify. It looks like that catches your son also ... as well as a lot of other kids.

I am not sure what is meant by the phrase that the candidate's allegiance is solely to the United States of America. That looks like a catch-all phrase so anyone can be challenged. How do you prove a candidate's sole allegiance is to the US?

 

[FR7 Baptist]

Where does the prohibition on dual citizenship of natural born citizens come from?

My son is a natural born US citizen and a citizen of Ireland. Is there a constitutional prohibition on him becoming president?

There is no prohibition for dual citizens. This bill is unconstitutional because it is adding to the requirements to be President.

 

[Crabtownboy]

There is no prohibition for dual citizens. This bill is unconstitutional because it is adding to the requirements to be President.

Paul, I agree with you. That clause alone, IMHO, would make this an unconstitutional bill if it passed and was signed into law.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Guys, let's face it Crabtown got this one right.

This is proves the dictum "hard cases make for bad law."

In their focus on the Obama situation, they failed to consider the many and various ways and circumstances folks are born in the US. As for the dual citizenship, IIRC it existed in the 18th century. So, if the writers of the Constitution wanted to disallow it they could have done so back in the day.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Surely the people of Arizona aren't this stupid.

Signatures of the the doc AND attendants? MmmMmmMmm, I just took a look at one of my daughters' birth certificate. The doc signed it, my husband signed it and the person who actually took our info over to the registrar signed (this person was not an attendant at my daughter's birth!). That is it!

That mean the legislature of Arizona wants to deny my daughter's right to run for president (in say 20 years) solely because enough people didn't sign her birth certificate? Yeah, total foolishness. Surely they aren't that dumb.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

As best as I can see, the AZ Leggies are basing their law on how matters are handled under AZ laws and regulations. They are effectively telling the other US jurisdictions how to operate their birth certificate programs. As a Californian, they can go pound sand.

 

[targus]

As best as I can see, the AZ Leggies are basing their law on how matters are handled under AZ laws and regulations. They are effectively telling the other US jurisdictions how to operate their birth certificate programs. As a Californian, they can go pound sand.

Actually they are not telling anyone how to do anything.

They are simply setting the requirements to be on the ballot in Arizona.

I suppose that any candidate that is not on their ballot can be written in by voters.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Actually they are not telling anyone how to do anything.

They are simply setting the requirements to be on the ballot in Arizona.

I suppose that any candidate that is not on their ballot can be written in by voters.

So every state can define 'natural born citizen'? Will anyone ever be on all 50 ballots?

 

[targus]

So every state can define 'natural born citizen'? Will anyone ever be on all 50 ballots?

I don't believe that they are defining natural born citizen.

They are simply stating what is required to be on their ballot.

I thought that you support states rights.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I don't believe that they are defining natural born citizen.

They are simply stating what is required to be on their ballot.

I thought that you support states rights.

The supreme law of the land is the US Constitution. States do not have the right to add to the requirements established there no matter how greatvtheir rights are.

It is foolish for a state to pass reactionary laws, especially ones that violate the Constitution. The 'no dual citizenship' requirement does just that. As does the 'born in a hospital' requirement.

 

[matt wade]

Some of us have forgotten that there is no constitutional right to be on a state ballot. There is no constitutional right for people of a state to vote for the office of President. A state could produce a ballot with a single choice if they wanted. A state could produce no ballot and simply flip a coin, or choose based on a candidates stance on abortion. A state can choose the candidate that their electoral votes will go to in any fashion they wish (obviously with some exceptions such as race, gender, etc).