Salvation Equation

Being divided on an issie does not mean there is no evidence of the fruit of the spirit. It is just not fully grown. Christians will show forth some evidence of the fruit even if they fail at a point in time although the fruit is not fully mature.
I do agree that time is needed for a maturity to come about, but I am suggesting that from the point of salvation the change is seen and that change is the beginning of the fruit mentioned although not mature.

 

You are incorrect. One of the first lessons of both theology and hermeneutics is that words have USAGE based in context not "meaning" as a stand-alone function.

I am again asking you to detail your use of the word propitiation. I'm beginning to believe that you cannot.

 

You really have no idea how the Greek language works---do you? Consider the term peirazo—James 1:13 says God will never do it; Heb 11:17 gives an example of God actually doing it. Why—b/c the term can mean something completely different based on the context. Now—you’ve obviously put time into your personal theological views, & I commend you for this (b/c it shows you understand the importance of Scriptural study)---but your lack of understanding in certain areas is causing you overall equation to fall short.

 

What I said it that a word can have different meanings, and sometimes it is positive and sometimes it is negitive. Here is what I mean.

Let me just give one example. We are to love others and love is good and of God, but not all love is good. This love is evil.
Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;
So this is why I said it depends on the context.

 

God's plan includes chosing individuals, by name, for salvation before the foundation of the world... not a "target group" as you say.

Predestination is specific to the individual chosen/elected for salvation.

BTW, the purpose of my "equation" was to put the emphasis on God when it comes to salvation. Man responds to God's intervention in His life, but is unable to do so without God's intervention in his life.

peace to youraying:

 

amen!!!!!!!!!

 

So we have no choice but to be saved, correct?

 

I'm not sure of your question. If the question is "will those whom God has chosen/elected for salvation be saved?", then yes, God's plan for salvation for that person will come to pass.

peace to youraying:

 

No disrespect but I think you understood my question.
My question is do we have a choice to be saved or not to be saved? Are you saying that God makes us get saved?

 

No disrespect, but please don't presume to know what I understood or didn't, especially since I specifically told you I wasn't sure of what you were saying.

The unbeliever has a choice to accept or reject God, either from His general revelation which goes to all men but saves none (since all reject), or from His special revelation which is found in the person of Jesus Christ and His gospel.

Those who hear the special revelation of the gospel have a choice to believe or reject Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. All would reject this special revelation (just as they reject general revelation) if not for God's intervention in the lives of those He has elected for salvation.

For those God has elected for salvation, God, Holy Spirit brings them to the truth of the gospel and they "choose" Christ as a response to God's intervention in their lives.

So, to answer your questions (as I understand them)...

1. Yes, men have a choice to accept or reject Christ for salvation. All reject unless God intervenes in their lives.

2. No, God does not "make us" get saved (you seem to be implying God made us against our wills), but God intervenes in the lives of His elect, by the power of Holy Spirit, so as to insure they will respond with repentance and faith.

Thus, my "equation" for salvation puts almost all the emphasis on God, and very little emphasis on man's response to what God has done.

peace to youraying:

 

My head hurts after trying to read all those equations.

 

You are in politics, correct? :smilewinkgrin:

 

Let's send them to Washington as they are on about the same level of the political rhetoric. Yes means no, absolute means choice, choice means no possible way. The politicians can handle this. Just ask them.

 

No, I'm not in politics. You really know how to hit a guy below the belt...:smilewinkgrin:

Did I answer your questions?

peace to youraying:

 

well if you are a politician yes, but if not then no. It was a simple question that requires a simple answer. If God predestines individual people to salvation then does that mean we have no choice? If that is not understandable then can God's predestination be overruled by the one being predestined? Both are the same question and require a simple yes or no.

 

I answered you directly. Every individual chosen/elected by God makes a "choice" to accept Christ as Savior.

I answered you directly. Every person God has chosen for salvation will respond to God's intervention in their lives by coming to salvation in Christ.

"Predestination" cannot be "overruled" by man because it is an act of God. That doesn't change the fact that men "choose" Christ as a response to God intervening in their lives by power of Holy Spirit.

peace to youraying:

 

Politics? Come on now, they're not THAT bad!

 

You are a politician. :smilewinkgrin: predestination cannot be overruled, but the one predestined has a choice? What is the other choice from saying yes?