Arabic Now an Option at Michigan DHS

[carpro]

The best way to truly correct the error is to rectify it. I will be happy to modify the OP and the poll at the request of the poster if he so desires.

You need a break , Roger.

I believe your objectivity is slipping.

Now you want people to approach a topic the way you want it approached and seem to be willing to enforce it as an administrator.

Frankly, I believe you owe rd2 an apology for indicating he is a liar and refusing to accept his apology.

 

[righteousdude2]

I Agree With Your Point....

When they won't back up their post by correcting your "ignorance", it usually means they just can't handle the subject and want to turn it to you instead of the subject matter.

Forget it.

....I just didn't like the way my OP was linked with "ignorant." If my post was "ignorant" ergo, I too must be ignorant!

I agree with your point, appreciate your support, and I have forgotten it. However, I just wanted to point out the uncivil way in which several spoke about my post.

Reporting it would not wipe out the personal hurt and offense caused by a few brothers. The seeds were sowen, and this kind of behavior has to stop if the BB is to survive the court of public opinion.

The point I wanted to make was buried in a flurry of accusations of my so called ignorance, and "prejudice." As one member pointed out, "nothing to look at here!"

Disagree with me, folks, just don't assassinate my character and integrity while you disagree.

Again, thanks for your supportive post and comments. You are the reason this board works, along with others who kindly and gently pointed out my errors.

Pastor Paul

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Thread edited at posters request to reflect intended discussion.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I have no problem with offering other language options since there is no official national language. I don't know if Michigan does.

The best part of the story though is the official's name on the upper right hand corner of the form. Have a look

 

[freeatlast]

There is simply no reason for the added cost of printing forms in other languages. I think that there should be but one language forms offered, not two or three or any other number. This would at least encourage those who do not speak English to learn to read and speak the common language of this nation. Doing this would not stop them from getting the assistance they need as they could ask someone else to help them with the forms.
Otherwise the next thing we will be making traffic signs in multiple languages. It is not necessary if the common language nation was required.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

What is the additional cost?

 

[freeatlast]

Hello Roger
that is great question. Like yourself most people do not understand that Arabic text is not like English text. It takes extra programs to print the text and in some cases different equipment. So that is one cost. Also there has to be someone to translate the existing English into Arabic language. That is another cost. Then there is always excess printed so there is added cost in that which is wasted.
Then at the processing office there has to be people who can read Arabic to process the claims, another cost. These are but a few of the added cost. Good question I am sure others were not aware of this. Below is an example of Arabic text.
:thumbsup:

Sample Arabic text

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Hello Roger
that is great question. Like yourself most people do not understand that Arabic text is not like English text. It takes extra programs to print the text and in some cases different equipment. So that is one cost. Also there has to be someone to translate the existing English into Arabic language. That is another cost. Then there is always excess printed so there is added cost in that which is wasted.
Then at the processing office there has to be people who can read Arabic to process the claims, another cost. These are but a few of the added cost. Good question I am sure others were not aware of this. Below is an example of Arabic text.
:thumbsup:

Sample Arabic text

I do realise that Arabic text is different than our Roman text. I am ignorant of many things, but knowing the difference between an Arabic font and a Roman one is not one of them. In the 21st century it is just as easy to print in Arabic as in Roman fonts. There is no longer typesetting required. There is probably an Arabic font in your word processor. If not the state of Michigan can get them free here - http://freearabicfonts.com/ .


Also, in this case, the files are pdf for the user to print their own forms.

I appreciate your point about having an Arabic reader on staff and will grant that possible expense. My guess is that the guy on the letterhead can do it himself in this case though.

I would have no problem with one language only if it were the law - it is not. Every state should have the right to meet the needs of their residents in the way they see best. That is one of the view rights still afforded to the states.

 

[freeatlast]

I do realise that Arabic text is different than our Roman text. I am ignorant of many things, but knowing the difference between an Arabic font and a Roman one is not one of them. In the 21st century it is just as easy to print in Arabic as in Roman fonts. There is no longer typesetting required. There is probably an Arabic font in your word processor.

Also, in this case, the files are pdf for the user to print their own forms.

I appreciate your point about having an Arabic reader on staff and will grant that possible expense. My guess is that the guy on the letterhead can do it himself in this case though.

Someone has to do the PDF. That is added cost.
The things I mentioned all add to the cost which is what you asked. if only one of them added then there is added cost, but all are part of an added cost.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Someone has to do the PDF. That is added cost.
The things I mentioned all add to the cost which is what you asked. if only one of them added then there is added cost, but all are part of an added cost.

Judging from the pdf file and the names on it I would guess that there may be an Arabic speaker on staff already

Beside, why should someone have to learn a language which not an official language in order to receive the help that others can receive?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Do unto others are you wold have them do to you.

I have greatly appreciated it when I have been in foreign countries and they have forms, signs, markers, station names, etc. in English as well as their own language.

What is wrong with helping others?

 

[freeatlast]

Do unto others are you wold have them do to you.

I have greatly appreciated it when I have been in foreign countries and they have forms, signs, markers, station names, etc. in English as well as their own language.

What is wrong with helping others?

There is nothing with the private sector or even the government helping someone who is a tourist. This is not about helping someone who cannot help themselves. This is about financial aid and if they are here legally then they need to know how to speak the language or get someone to help them with the forms. it should not be up to the tax payers to cover every language on earth to pass out tax payer money. What is wrong with that?

 

[Crabtownboy]

There is nothing with the private sector or even the government helping someone who is a tourist.

ROFL, so tourists are more important and should be helped, but not legal aliens or citizens. Quite interesting.

This is not about helping someone who cannot help themselves. This is about financial aid and if they are here legally then they need to know how to speak the language or get someone to help them with the forms. it should not be up to the tax payers to cover every language on earth to pass out tax payer money. What is wrong with that?

I wonder if you would have the same attitude if you moved to another non-English speaking country. Most Americans in other countries do not learn those languages and most of them expect forms, etc. to be available in English.

 

[Arbo]

The first two pages of this thread have been oddly interesting- in a carnival sideshow kind of way.

...And for what it's worth, I've no problem with the language thing. After all, most Americans' ancestors were newbies.

 

[freeatlast]

ROFL, so tourists are more important and should be helped, but not legal aliens or citizens. Quite interesting.




I wonder if you would have the same attitude if you moved to another non-English speaking country. Most Americans in other countries do not learn those languages and most of them expect forms, etc. to be available in English.

I don't know what other Americans expect when they become legal citizens of another country and i am sure you don't either. If someone is here legally and they need assistance then fine. learn to speak the language or get an interpreter. I do not want my tax dollar going to pay for special forms or have to hire special people to care for every language in the world. if you want this kind of thing then I suggest that you deny yourself and give above and beyond to help set this all up.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I don't know what other Americans expect when they become legal citizens of another country and i am sure you don't either. If someone is here legally and they need assistance then fine. learn to speak the language or get an interpreter. I do not want my tax dollar going to pay for special forms or have to hire special people to care for every language in the world. if you want this kind of thing then I suggest that you deny yourself and give above and beyond to help set this all up.

I really have a difficult time understanding why people, especially Christians, have such a dislike when it comes to helping others. It really puzzles me.

 

[freeatlast]

I really have a difficult time understanding why people, especially Christians, have such a dislike when it comes to helping others. It really puzzles me.

What puzzles me is why a Christian would not want to help someone expand their knowledge and abilities. This is not about helping someone who is in need that cannot possibly find resolve without any effort on their part as you are trying to make it. This is about people as yourself allowing others to use a system and why we are in the debt we are in.

These people will not lose out on benefits if they learn to read English. In fact that should be their responsibility if they live here legally and if here illegally deport them. There is an old saying. Give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he’ll eat for the rest of his life. If they are legally here and legally qualified and want government assistance then fill out the regular English form. If you want to be a translator learn THEIR language and go and help them, but the tax payer should not be made to fund this kind of luxury of separate language forms for all languages or even some languages. English should be enough.
One more thing. I do not believe that you or anyone else can show proof of any person who has not receive government assistance because they could not read the English form. You can bet that they went an extra mile to find some help in filling it out or they learned the language even if it was one word at a time with a translation dictionary. Again no multiple language forms.

 

[righteousdude2]

FAL Has a Valid Point!

As a retired employee of the State of California, my service was spent in licensing day-care homes, and between 1988 and 2000, I witnessed the state add application forms, licensing evaluation forms, books containing the statutes, laws, and policies of licensing, and the needed staff to monitor the more than 20 languages we catered to.

Our laws and forms were available in the following languages: http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/cdssweb/FormsandPu_274.htm

This meant hiring staff to meet the needs of those who applied for and received a license in that specific language/dilect. Furthermore, it meant getting these staff members to those people whenever there was a need to provide a licensing workshop (mandated for all applicants); to conduct the prescreening visit(s); conduct investigations and follow-ups to complaints on the facility (once it was licensed); and to conduct yearly facility reviews and on-sight visits. This staff has to travel (at a great cost to the state and department budget) at the drop of the hat, and they had to be available whenever a need came up for translators.

A ton of folks, that I worked with, believed it would be so much easier and save tons of taxpayer money, to require licensees to speak and comprehend English as part of the requirement to obtain a license.

However, it is the governments need to cater to the diversity of those living in this nation that is costing the government money it doesn't have. I don't know how much money we're looking at, but, you can tell by the list above, that it is a costly service.

Sure, our ancestors came from other cultures, and brought with them, their native tongues. I don't deny this. However, instead of encouraging their children and grandchildren to learn and speak English, today's naturalized citizens encourage the continued use of their native language.

I wanted so badly to speak German (the language spoken by my parents and grandparents), but they discouraged me and told me English was spoken in their house, and our new country.

If it was good enough for our forefathers and their offspring, it should be good enough for today's immigrants to mandate that their children speak English.

The government has done nothing more than encourage immigrants to remain in their own language in the name-of-diversity. We make it comfortable for generations of immigrants by placating to their needs, and providing whatever is needed to make sure they succeed in America speaking their native tongue.

This is one of the reasons America is going broke. Diversity has done more harm than good. It means well, but it provides no incentives to learn the language of the land.

This is seen in our welfare programs, too. We have second and third generations of welfare recipients because there is no incentive to get off Medicaid and food stamps.

Until this nation makes a push to teach English as the only accepted language, we will continue to pay unknown costs to tranquillize the needs of others all in the name of diversity!

My views may seem harsh, and un-loving. However, the facts speak for themselves. Taxpayers can't continue to foot the bill in order to make diversity work!

I have nothing against non-English speaking people. I just believe they need to push their children and children's children to learn the language of this land they now call home.

Pastor Paul

 

[David Lamb]

These people will not lose out on benefits if they learn to read English. In fact that should be their responsibility if they live here legally and if here illegally deport them.

However, English is a notoriously difficult language to learn. And I don't know about official forms in your country, but here, in spite of efforts to simplify them, still tend to include a lot of jargon. I learnt French and German when I was at school, and if I travelled to a French-speaking or German-speaking country, I could make myself understood in shops, restaurants, etc., but would not have been able to understand and fill in an official form. Yet you seem to be expecting non-English speakers to reach that sort of a standard in the English language before they set foot in your country.

Apart from that, surely in your country, as in mine, there are plenty of other official forms that have nothing to do with getting money from the government; in the case of income tax returns it is just the opposite.

 

[freeatlast]

However, English is a notoriously difficult language to learn. And I don't know about official forms in your country, but here, in spite of efforts to simplify them, still tend to include a lot of jargon. I learnt French and German when I was at school, and if I travelled to a French-speaking or German-speaking country, I could make myself understood in shops, restaurants, etc., but would not have been able to understand and fill in an official form. Yet you seem to be expecting non-English speakers to reach that sort of a standard in the English language before they set foot in your country.

Apart from that, surely in your country, as in mine, there are plenty of other official forms that have nothing to do with getting money from the government; in the case of income tax returns it is just the opposite.

Hello David. This is about getting financial assistance for those who are legally here as residents or citizens and not about tourists so your analogy is totally non responsive.