Illegals who pay their way

[freeatlast]

Have you ever broken the law? Do you know it is against the law to openly exercise Christian principles and practices in many public places today. We don't need to deport illegals, we need to find a way to cut the flow off from future illegal entry into the country while we figure out a way to accomodate as many who are already here who show they are worth trying to accomodate.

Our country needs more workers doing more work, building more families, buying more goods, etc. The secret to economic "growth" is growth that is necessary because of population growth and other things. If we deport thirteen million people, we rip out the heart of our nation where these illegals have already taken root. We have already seen farmers in Alabama ruined by poorly planned laws which devastated the farmer's workforce, bankrupting many of them and adding to the burden of an already sluggish economy.

It should not be illegal for hard workers to come to the USA to work. What should be made illegal is unionization laws which bankrupt businesses, welfare programs which pay healthy workers to remain idle, out of control govt health and welfare benefits which are paid for by the working taxpayers, and so forth.

Besides all this, Bill has it right. God tells us to befriend our neighbors and we should try to figure out how to do that while at the same time tightening up on the illegal alien problem.

Your method is already being done by our corrupt government officials and it is a failure. I have no problem with legal workers coming here in a temporary visa, but not illegals who come here. I am in favor of deportation of all illegals with the possible exception of those who are here for a number of years and have a family and have no criminal convictions. Even these would have some stringent conditions to stay or be deported at the first offense of those rules. However for the rest deportation after 5 years in prison working hard labor.
I would be in favor of somthing along this line or total deportation;
I am for their deportation and placing our military on the borders along with a wall to stop illegal entry. Anyone caught entering illegally in the future would receive 5 years hard labor and then deported. I would make an exception to deporting some. If they have established a family with naturalized children and have no criminal convictions and been here at least 10 years I would be in favor of letting them stay with some serious conditions.
They would be required to have a special green card and register at least once a year paying a 1000 dollar fee to process their paper work and be required to fluently read and write the English language They would have to report their residence, place of employment and re-register if any of that changed and pay another processing fee of 1000 dollars.
They would never have the right to vote or become a citizen.
They would be required to wear ankle bracelets the rest of their lives if they remain and they have to pay all the costs associated with them.
Since they came here illegally they would never be entitled to any government benefits including food stamps, government grants or government funded medical benefits.
They could never hold any local, state, or federal job or political position.
They could never own a firearm.
Any drivers license, fishing license or any other recreational fees would be charged at the rate of any visitor.
At any time they violate any of the rules or are convicted of any crime they would be automatically deported forfeiting any and all assets with no appeals.

 

[billwald]

You want lifetime indentured servants.

 

[freeatlast]

You want lifetime indentured servants.

That is the offer I would give them. Take it or get out.

 

[targus]

You want lifetime indentured servants.

No, they are free to go home any time.

BTW, with the income tax, property taxes, fees for license plates and and driver's licenses and professional licenses, sales taxes, etc. how are we not indentured servants anyway?

You know... the government as our "owners" ?

 

[marke]

Deport them! Close the borders! Shut off all the aid and "comfort"!

My family history goes back to England, then to France. My great times x grandparents came into this country legally. They paid their dues.

My parents were hard working share cropper farmers who barely eeked out a living. Yet they paid their taxes and did all that was required of them by Caesar.

My mother died of cancer after racking up huge medical bills. Helped my father apply for assistance even though he didn't want to take "charity". But, he couldn't pay the bills on his meager social security checks. He was turned down because he owned 1, yes, one acre of land and a 3rd hand mobile home. Didn't matter that he was also providing a home for my disabled sister. Didn't matter that he had been laid off from the only job he could get at his age - night watchman.

He only lived a year longer than my Mom. During that time he made a payment every month on Mom's bills.

Treat illegals far better than my parents were treated? What do you think?
Condone what's happening today? What do you think?

The scriptures teach us to help the needy - widows and orphans.
The scriptures teach us to obey the laws of the land.

Correct me if I'm wrong. So far I haven't found any scriptures that urge us to aid lawbreakers at the expense of those truly in need through no fault of their own. What's going to happen to my sister when we're gone and can't help her any longer? When the illegal and legal freeloaders have drained public assistance dry?

There were some serious discussions about deporting blacks after the civil war since they were no longer 'needed'. People may have had some good points, I don't know, but the whole idea was absurd. Our nation is laden down in debt which will not easily be dealt with, and drastic measures are simply not going to work. We need to close down the Education Dept. and other big govt boondoggles, but we cannot cut everything at once without creating some chaos in society and in the marketplace. There is no easy answer unless it is just to let the country go under and allow for the introduction of an altogether new form of govt and monetary system, which is, I'm afraid, is coming just around the corner.

The same kind of thing holds true for illegals. They are enmeshed into the fabric of our society. They have jobs, they have businesses, homes, are buying cars, paying bills, etc. And, like Bill said, they are paying taxes on their earnings. We cannot afford to round them up and ship them out in cattle cars. There isn't enough money in the country to pay for that, even if we were to dip into the stashed riches of Clinton, Obama, and Harry Reid combined. But if we could ship them out in overloaded boxcars, we would be ripping out from our economy the money they are payin to the economy through rent, payments on purchases, food purchases, etc., not to mention the loss of labor to those Americans who are using them in spite of the inefficient and unreasonable laws that unwise lawmakers have dumped on us by the shipload.

Illegals are here illegally because of two things, and both are the fault of congress. First, Congres makes immigration more restrictively illegal because of union pressure to keep lower-paid but more willing to work workers from coming into America and threatening their soft cushy benefits. Secondly, after congress tightens up restrictions on immigration and turns a cold shoulder towards all USA neighbors in selfish focus on the interests of democratic party supporters, they then refuse to enact legislation which will enable the tightening of borders so as to keep illegals from entering.

We now have children who are here through no fault of their own, adults who were brought here as children and all kinds of other people. If congress passes a law that makes Jews illegal are we going to turn them over to Hitler? God owns the land and He tells us to love people and to accomodate strangers and even to show mercy in some cases toward hardened criminals. The only difference between an illegal and a legal citicizen is a man-made law based on questionable logic. Man-made laws should not be used by God's people to treat people like unwanted blacks or Jews.

 

[billwald]

>BTW, with the income tax, property taxes, fees for license plates and and driver's licenses and professional licenses, sales taxes, etc. how are we not indentured servants anyway?

YES! Most of us are in a new class of industrial serf, indentured to the hegemony of multinational corporations. I've been trying to make this point for years but others insist they have some sort of unnamed freedom which the government is trying to remove.

"No man is an island." Some neocons want to live on deserted islands with the benefits of civilization.

>My family history goes back to England, then to France. My great times x grandparents came into this country legally. They paid their dues.


Did they Kill Indian People to get the land or did they buy the land from white people who killed the Indian People?

 

[billwald]

>My mother died of cancer after racking up huge medical bills. Helped my father apply for assistance even though he didn't want to take "charity". But, he couldn't pay the bills on his meager social security checks. He was turned down because he owned 1, yes, one acre of land and a 3rd hand mobile home. Didn't matter that he was also providing a home for my disabled sister. Didn't matter that he had been laid off from the only job he could get at his age - night watchman.

Your father didn't work a union job with a defined benefit company pension? The norm was worse before FDR invented SS. His meager SS was an improvement over what his situation would have been without SS. You vote progressive demo because of your family's experience or are you simply working harder, longer, and smarter than your father did?

 

[targus]

>BTW, with the income tax, property taxes, fees for license plates and and driver's licenses and professional licenses, sales taxes, etc. how are we not indentured servants anyway?

YES! Most of us are in a new class of industrial serf, indentured to the hegemony of multinational corporations. I've been trying to make this point for years but others insist they have some sort of unnamed freedom which the government is trying to remove.

How do you get from taxes to multinational corportations as "owners"?

The government takes their pound of flesh under penalty of law including the loss of my freedom through inprisionment.

I don't have to have anything to do with multinational corporations if I choose not to interact with them.

Ford and GM can't come to my house and demand money from me if I don't agree to buy a car from them first.

The government can.

 

[targus]

Your father didn't work a union job with a defined benefit company pension? The norm was worse before FDR invented SS. His meager SS was an improvement over what his situation would have been without SS. You vote progressive demo because of your family's experience or are you simply working harder, longer, and smarter than your father did?

Your love affair with unions is only the product of your life long dependence on a public sector union job that allowed you to do below average work for above average pay financed under penalty of law including the threat of imprisionment of those who were forced to contribute to your pay in the form of taxes.

The very same people that you call "trash" and look down your nose at with your supposed MENSA IQ.

All the while admitting that the only thing that allowed you to move from your "trash" neighborhood was money left to you by a relative that actually earned a living by working a real job.

 

[Oldtimer]

Your father didn't work a union job with a defined benefit company pension? The norm was worse before FDR invented SS. His meager SS was an improvement over what his situation would have been without SS. You vote progressive demo because of your family's experience or are you simply working harder, longer, and smarter than your father did?

My father was self employed as a share cropper farmer for most of his life.

For the record, I'm a political conservative, who believes this country should still be a republic, as originally established by our founders.

Now, rather than talking about my father's life, I'll switch to mine. Joined the workforce in 1966. The government TOOK a portion of my pay, every check, for 40+ years. TOOK the premium for my old age health insurance. For 40+ years, they used my money, as they pleased. Didn't give me the option to invest it myself.

There's no comparison between the return on investment in my retirement accounts compared to the empty "lock box" called Social Security and Medicare. Sure, I finally received a cost of living adjustment for 2012. Along with increases in deductions for Medicare and Prescription drugs. PLUS, letters from our medical service providers letting us know Medicare is increasing what we have to pay out of pocket every doctor's visit. Despite having to pay "insurance premiums" for 40+ years that could have been better invested elsewhere.

Should I have sought out a union job in 1966? NO!

Pay union dues on top of what the government was taking for "retirement". For the same 40+ years, I've watched what unions have done to this country. Thank God I didn't retire with a big fat union driven pension that's robbing my great nieces and nephews of the opportuntity to find decent jobs in this economy. Or, robbing my friends and family of jobs that were shipped overseas. While union leaders are traveling in their private jets to persuade even more people into believing the "progressive" pipe dream of socialism.

Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, .....

No where within that does it say doing xyz isn't in my contract. No where within that does it say an employer can't hire John Smith because he isn't a union worker. No where within that does it say the cost of my bread must include a "fee" (premium) for high wages of a select few.

The cost of union based pension plans is (has) taken bread off the tables of many like my father. Yet, his sweat and toil in wheat fields produced the bread for others.

 

[billwald]

>Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, .....

God must love poor people because he made so many of them? God made poor people so that real Christians could give them handouts? God blesses good Christians and everyone else is going to Hell, anyway?

By the way, did the government leave you enough money so you could tithe on gross income?

 

[Oldtimer]

>Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, .....

God must love poor people because he made so many of them? God made poor people so that real Christians could give them handouts? God blesses good Christians and everyone else is going to Hell, anyway?

By the way, did the government leave you enough money so you could tithe on gross income?

Interesting that you equate "real" and "good" Christians according to their money. To each his own.

No, the government didn't leave enough money for tithes, offerings and living expenses. We're using our savings and some odd jobs to make ends meet. And, yes, we tithe on the GROSS of every dollar, regardless of the source.

How about you?