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Are angels humans from the future?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Mark_13, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    What were angels created as? Angels maybe?
     
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I don't feel threatened. :) I have tougher skin that that after 5 years on this board.

    I did post scripture. Scripture doesn't imply any way, shape or form that angels are dead humans. The responsibility is yours to prove it does.
     
  3. Mark_13

    Mark_13 New Member

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    Your construction there "angels are dead humans" is an irreverent and innacurate characterization of what I said.

    I'm not trying to convert anybody- that's why I solicited substantive feedback in the OP, not knee-jerk belittling unsubstantive drivel which is all you're evidently capable of. Glad you're not thin-skinned.
     
  4. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Sounds like Mormonism:

    "the office which is assigned to the saints in the salvation of their fellow men, does not consist alone in their going forth during the days of their flesh to preach, and testify to their fellow men of the things of God; but also after they leave this world to enjoy another state of being, to manifest themselves to their brethren, who are in the flesh, and who have the testimony of Jesus, and to administer unto them, and to make them acquainted with those things which pertain to the kingdom of God, and to be ministering spirits unto them who are the heirs of salvation. This ministration of the angels or messengers, who were once in the flesh, is to those who are heirs of salvation, and who are approved of in the sight of God" —Sidney Rigdon, Reformed Baptist turned Mormon church spokesman

    http://www.centerplace.org/history/ma/v1n11.htm
     
  5. Mark_13

    Mark_13 New Member

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    Where does it say angels were created as angels?
     
  6. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Whatever. You've made up your mind.
     
  7. Mark_13

    Mark_13 New Member

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    Interesting. First of all I'm not a Mormon, never heard of this about them, and as inclined as any Baptist to say if Mormon's came up with it, its probably not true. Otoh, Shooting the messenger is an informal logical fallacy, so the question should be where in scripture did Mormon's get this from - maybe I should look into it for a bit.
     
  8. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee. Nehemiah 9:6

    Right there.
     
  9. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Dude, you are seriously messed up.

    I wasn't applauding his doctrine. I was applauding his courage in bringing it here to test it. It would have been much easier for him to simply start a web site espousing those views.

    You seriously have a mean spirit about you.
     
  10. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    OK. That's your opinion, and what you needed to say about another person.

    As for me, sticking to sound doctrine is what I will always do. I can't applaud this other path. If all that makes me to you, mean spirited, messed up, or other pejoratives, sobeit.

    This is what happens when one makes a stand for sound truth. I'll stand with what I've said.

    God bless you Don.

    In addition, I wouldn't encourage starting a website espousing non-biblical views.
     
    #50 preacher4truth, Feb 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2012
  11. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Not talking about Free's post; so I didn't read your response to him. Sorry about that. Was referring more to Scarlett and BeamMeUp's posts.

    Let me walk you through this: God created the heavens and the earth. They are what they are.

    God created the lion and the lamb. They are what they are.

    God created men and angels; yet, you somehow believe they're something other than what they are.

    Seems to me Hebrews 1:14 pretty much defines angels. And 2:16 pretty much identifies the difference between angels and men.
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    In Hebrews we get an explanation of psalm 8.....

    man apart from Christ...lower than angels....In Christ we shall judge angels


    resurrected humans/angels...time travel.....no
     
  13. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Perhaps instead of telling another how we feel about them, perhaps address the sound doctrine employed, and rather make a stand for sound teaching?

    Telling others how we feel about them is only revealing about ourselves.

    Stick to doctrine instead, and leave off the personal remarks.

    Applauding a 'maverick' spirit lending toward errant theology, or, encouraging a website start espousing a departure from sound doctrine is an imprudent venture.
     
  14. Mark_13

    Mark_13 New Member

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    Its talking about stars there - where it says hosts. Some translations even say starry hosts. The fact that it talks about the sea right after the heavens should clue you in on that.

    Even if it did say angels - the question was, were angels always angels from the time they were created, so it wouldn't answer that.

    Thought I'd give you a hand so the following occurred to me:

    (Ezek 28:12-14) "Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared. You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.

    But what's weird is, it talking about the King of Tyre but as if talking about Satan the anointed cherub. So there is some strange connection between angels and humans evidently that the scripture doesn't feel obliged to spell out.
     
  15. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, can't let that pass, because you're misrepresenting what I posted.

    I'm not applauding a maverick spirit espousing a departure from sound doctrine; I'm applauding the courage it takes to be told you're wrong about something. You'll notice that twice now, he's acknowledged posters who have provided scripture that directly contradicts his position; in other words, he's open to sound doctrine. The question is: Are you gonna provide it to him? Or let him continue in his "errant theology"?

    Second, I didn't "encourage a website start." I mentioned that he brought his questions here, when he could have done like so many, many others already have, and simply started a website espousing his thoughts. Instead, he's asking you, and the rest of us, to tell us what scripture really says about the subject.

    You can be petty about this. Or you can follow your own advice, and actually search out scripture with this guy, and teach him what scripture says.

    Done with you. Back to the original point of this thread.
     
  16. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    So stars are worshipping God?

    and:

    and:

    1 Kings 22:19, Luke 2:13 refer to "host" as angelic beings, not planets/stars. Scriptures point to these as angelic beings.

    - Peace
     
    #56 preacher4truth, Feb 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2012
  17. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    If you'd take a gander you'd see that I've provided sound doctrine to him. I've addressed him with truth. Your points stand as stated; applause for such a thing, and encouragement of starting a site with the same ideologies.

    Now, rather than telling us your inward feelings for a person, address the actual teachings I've conveyed, and leave off the remarks. I'm not interested in your feelings for me, it's not necessary in addition to your being petty.
     
    #57 preacher4truth, Feb 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2012
  18. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Seems to me this passage is not showing a connection between men and angels, but saying: Tell the king of Tyre that if I (God) have struck down my cherub, why should the king of Tyre be any different?
     
  19. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    God uses both men and angels as "messengers" and with that there can be confusion. There is though a distinction between the two.
     
  20. Mark_13

    Mark_13 New Member

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    iconclast -

    26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

    That says that Abraham can't go to hell (or hades) to comfort the Rich man


    3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

    How does this establish that good angels are not resurrected Christians from the future. I'm just saying...
     
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