Rick Santorum to Puerto Rico: If You Want to Become a State You Need to Speak English

[Bro. Curtis]

Last thing we need is a 51st state, 90% on welfare.

In 100% agreement.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I guess it is just my magnetic personality. Did you notice he also believes he can add words to my post when he replies, changing what I said. Is that allowed on the board?

It is when you do it. Why can't I ? Are you suggesting a different standard shouild exist for you ? Are you going to deny you have done it ? I did it as a joke that THINKING B.B. members could easily see. Are your's a joke ? I don't think so.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Also, please tell me why we can't make that our national language and still accommodate others? It's not like I said "let's make English the national language and arrest everyone else who speaks something else"

This point?

Why do we need a national language if it isn't to exclude or control those who don't already speak it? Control doesn't have to be as extreme as arresting someone. Control can economic, social, religious, there are all sorts of control. In the case of a national language, MOST (which may not include you) want a national language as a way of telling illegals to go home, we aren't going to accomodate you.

The problem with that is: We've been accomodating or rather exploiting them for well over a century. Mexicans have always been a source of cheap farm labor controlled by low wages and a lack of education. And then in the 70's came the push to start educating the children and Americans paid no attention so the gov did what the gov does and threw money towards the squeaky wheel. Then under the auspices of saving lives by providing emergency medical care without regard to ability to pay, we began requiring ERs to do just that. This happened in the '70s too after a few well publicized deaths happened when hospitals refused emergency care to a few folks who couldn't provide proof of ability to pay. And again, America thought this was a good idea.

What Americans failed to do was to distinguish between providing these to citizens and providing them to non citizens and like a frog sitting in a slowly heating pot of water, no one cared until the pot boiled. If it weren't for the recession we are going through at the moment, we STILL wouldn't care. We only care because certain elements in government want to point at illegal immigration being the end all be all cause of the recession when in reality there are a host of factors involved most of which stem from how we do business in this country and the greed involved in that.

My point is, we have better/more important issues to deal with in this country than making English our national language.

 

[NiteShift]

Polls of Peurto Ricans have for many years shown that they would prefer to continue as a commonwealth and not become a state. They do not pay US income tax but do receive federal funds. What's not to like about that?

Their main utility to the US in the past was as a naval base. But since that has been closed down and they have insisted that we shut down our firing range there, what advantage is there in keeping PR as a protectorate?

 

[Oldtimer]

Let me repeat: The United States has never had an official language. English was simply the language of the majority in the beginning and the rich and/or powerful thoughout the years. Other groups kept their language and either learned enough English to survive or set their kids to learning our language. That makes them smarter than us because they weren't too proud to learn a second language.

-----

1) what difference does that make? If the other English speaking countries of the world want to jump off the bridge into nationalized health care, does that mean the US should follow suit?

And what other English speaking countries are you talking about? Canada? Nope, their citizens learn both English and French. England? The country who's judges allow Sharia law to hold sway in their courtrooms? Phft! Okay, if you want to follow their lead.......just don't ask me too.

2)How many languages? Just enough to get along in your own community. If you have a large population of Spanish speakers, learn the language. IF not, you can stick with English. If some other group lives in numbers around you, learn the language if you want to do business with them.

3) this is another one of those questions of free choice. Do they need to learn English in order to survive here or is there a community of their own ethnicity that they can join and continue to speak only their own? We have a huge variety of ethnic groups in this country. And I'll admit, sometime it is difficult for government services who have to deal with the language differences, but those folks who work those jobs, picked their carreer so they can learn what they need to do earn their paycheck.

It is time that the US has an official language. The majority of the people in this country speak English. English was the language used to forge the documents that founded this country, regardless of the native language of those to came to these shores. The US government conducts daily business in English. And, English is the universal language used in those situations where all participants must speak the same one. Pilots of international airlines, airport controllers, etc.

Another English speaking country, you asked. Australia. BTW, a countries politics on a particular matter have nothing to do with their stance on the language issue. That's just a red herring brought into the conversation. You didn't address what non English speaking countries do to accomodate other languages.

If I go to Russia, Cuba, Turkey, and a host of other countries, will those countries go to the same lengths to accomodate me that you are suggesting that the US do for non English speakers?

Based on your response, we should learn the language of any ethnic community near us. Thus, I should learn Spanish, as we have a good sized Spanish speaking population in our area. What about people living in New York? How many languages should a New Yorker learn based on the ethnic communities in that city?

Based on your last statment, how many languages should employees of NC state government learn to accomodate those who have chosen to come to NC? We have a large number of peoples in metro areas with a variety of native languages. According to your premise, if I choose go into a public sector job, I should learn to speak all the languages represented by the people who also choose to come here. If I go to school to learn to be an accountant and get a job with the state or county, according to your premise, I should also go to school to learn all the native languages spoken in the applicable geographic area. Yet, you don't expect those speaking those languages to go to school to learn English. ???

If we try to accomodate everyone in everything, what is the incentive for anyone to do anything to improve their lot in life? If I CHOOSE go to Japan, according to your premise, I shouldn't have to do anything to be successful in their culture. Or, perhaps China. Will either of these countries make sure I don't have to put out any efforts to conform to their culture/society/language?

Lastly, in your opening statement. I'm surprised that you used the words "proud" and "smarter" in conjunction with this conversation, in this manner. You've condemned everyone who comes to this country and doesn't bother to learn to speak English. Is their pride and/or intelligence the reason why they expect me to do what they don't/won't do? Remember, they chose to move next door to me. I didn't choose to move next door to them.

 

[Oldtimer]

Polls of Peurto Ricans have for many years shown that they would prefer to continue as a commonwealth and not become a state. They do not pay US income tax but do receive federal funds. What's not to like about that?

Their main utility to the US in the past was as a naval base. But since that has been closed down and they have insisted that we shut down our firing range there, what advantage is there in keeping PR as a protectorate?

You're right. I'd forgotten about that. It's been a while since I've seen discussion on what the majority of the Peurto Ricans want and don't want. If memory serves, they DO NOT want to be forced to pay US income taxes that statehood would bring about.

 

[Crabtownboy]

It is when you do it. Why can't I ? Are you suggesting a different standard shouild exist for you ? Are you going to deny you have done it ? I did it as a joke that THINKING B.B. members could easily see. Are your's a joke ? I don't think so.

It is not a joke when you quote another post and then add words, enlarge them and change the color to change the meaning. That surely is a board violation ... not a joke. I do not ever remember seeing anyone do this before.

Stay with the topic of the thread. You are a master of name calling and negativity, but very short on rational discussion.

You might do well to keep your promise of never responding to any of my posts.

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

This point?

Why do we need a national language if it isn't to exclude or control those who don't already speak it? Control doesn't have to be as extreme as arresting someone. Control can economic, social, religious, there are all sorts of control. In the case of a national language, MOST (which may not include you) want a national language as a way of telling illegals to go home, we aren't going to accomodate you.

The problem with that is: We've been accomodating or rather exploiting them for well over a century. Mexicans have always been a source of cheap farm labor controlled by low wages and a lack of education. And then in the 70's came the push to start educating the children and Americans paid no attention so the gov did what the gov does and threw money towards the squeaky wheel. Then under the auspices of saving lives by providing emergency medical care without regard to ability to pay, we began requiring ERs to do just that. This happened in the '70s too after a few well publicized deaths happened when hospitals refused emergency care to a few folks who couldn't provide proof of ability to pay. And again, America thought this was a good idea.

What Americans failed to do was to distinguish between providing these to citizens and providing them to non citizens and like a frog sitting in a slowly heating pot of water, no one cared until the pot boiled. If it weren't for the recession we are going through at the moment, we STILL wouldn't care. We only care because certain elements in government want to point at illegal immigration being the end all be all cause of the recession when in reality there are a host of factors involved most of which stem from how we do business in this country and the greed involved in that.

My point is, we have better/more important issues to deal with in this country than making English our national language.

Your last statement I can get on board with.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Puerto Rico is already a protectorate of the United States and their citizens are aforded just about every right Americans have. They have successfully existed with in the authority of the US Government. The reason they are not a State has nothing to do with imposed sanctions because of their native language but because they don't internally have enough votes. So why do they need to speak english?

 

[InTheLight]

I think everybody should chill out. Look at what Santorum actually said,

"English has to be the main language."

Simple. Unassailable. Logical.

 

[menageriekeeper]

I don't have time for a full reply Oldtimer, but this one point:

I didn't mean to suggest you learn the languages of groups that simply exist in your same area. But, if you are going to interact with them on a regular basis you should learn their language. Knowing both helps to prevent misunderstandings and encourages unity as a whole in the country.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

It is not a joke when you quote another post and then add words, enlarge them and change the color to change the meaning. That surely is a board violation ... not a joke. I do not ever remember seeing anyone do this before.

Stay with the topic of the thread. You are a master of name calling and negativity, but very short on rational discussion.

You might do well to keep your promise of never responding to any of my posts.

Pound sand, hyopcrite. Your antri-christian garbage needs to be fought.

When you stop putting words in people's mouths, bringing up their wives, and avoiding challenges you will get treated better. Follow yer own advice.

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

I don't have time for a full reply Oldtimer, but this one point:

I didn't mean to suggest you learn the languages of groups that simply exist in your same area. But, if you are going to interact with them on a regular basis you should learn their language. Knowing both helps to prevent misunderstandings and encourages unity as a whole in the country.

Exactly. So if you are a minority in this country, you should learn the majority language. Not the other way around. Even in this day and age, with technology like it is, it's almost impossible for a minority to live a full life without needing something from the majority.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Pound sand, hyopcrite. Your anti-christian garbage needs to be fought.

When you stop putting words in people's mouths, bringing up their wives, and avoiding challenges you will get treated better. Follow yer own advice.

Fixed my spelling mistake.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Exactly. So if you are a minority in this country, you should learn the majority language. Not the other way around. Even in this day and age, with technology like it is, it's almost impossible for a minority to live a full life without needing something from the majority.

Why is learning a second language a one way street? Is this not a matter of hospitality and graciousness? And really, most immigrants (legal or not) do eventually learn English, but that is no reason for the rest of us to speak ONLY English.

 

[mandym]

Why is learning a second language a one way street? Is this not a matter of hospitality and graciousness? And really, most immigrants (legal or not) do eventually learn English, but that is no reason for the rest of us to speak ONLY English.

This is America, immigrants need to be legal and willing to assimilate. Americans may or may not learn other languages as is their freedom but that is inconsequential to the issue and there is no reasonable imperative to do so.We should not have to push 1 to hear the phone menu in English. It is the height of arrogance and hutzpa to travel to another country and insist that country should have to accommodate you.

 

[NiteShift]

Puerto Rico is already a protectorate of the United States and their citizens are aforded just about every right Americans have. They have successfully existed with in the authority of the US Government. The reason they are not a State has nothing to do with imposed sanctions because of their native language but because they don't internally have enough votes. So why do they need to speak english?

The statehood issue will be coming up for a vote this year in P.R., and that's why Santorum made the comment.

 

[NiteShift]

It's been a while since I've seen discussion on what the majority of the Peurto Ricans want and don't want. If memory serves, they DO NOT want to be forced to pay US income taxes that statehood would bring about.

Yes P.R. has the best of both world's as they are. I doubt if they would ever vote for statehood.

 

[Oldtimer]

Why is learning a second language a one way street? Is this not a matter of hospitality and graciousness? And really, most immigrants (legal or not) do eventually learn English, but that is no reason for the rest of us to speak ONLY English.

If it were simply a matter of "hospitality and graciousness" then it probably wouldn't be an issue. However, it is much more than that.

1) How many languages do I, as an individual need to learn in order to offer hospitality and be gracious to all who are around me? Within the area our community covers there are a number of different ethnic groups represented.

2) Wouldn't all the resources now being spent to accomodate so many different languges be better utilized by teaching English to those who want to become permanent residents in this country? Large amounts of money are being spent in both the public and private sector to accomodate an increasing number of languages.

If I buy an electric can opener, the manual that comes with it, includes several languages. That's OK, in a sense, for those who happen to read those languages. But, it still leaves out everyone else who doesn't speak same ones. Plus, as more languges are included, the useful information in the can opener manual decreases, in order to hold down production costs. Depending on the manner in which the languages are presented, the manual also becomes more and more difficult to read when wading through pages that are not applicable to the person trying to read it.

3) The social (communications) divide will continue to exist (as established by God) within any community as long as one language isn't used as the primary means of exchange of information. Even if I learn to fluently speak 5 languages, when someone speaking yet another language moves next door, we'll still have a barrier (divide) that hampers communication -- thus hospitality & graciousness that is expected that I should accomodate by yet learning another one. Here in the US, that one language is English. If I move to Spain, will my neighbors on either side be gracious and hospitable enough to learn English or will the 4 of them (compass points) expect me to learn Spanish?

4) "Why is learning a second language a one way street?" Simply because it isn't a one way street for those who would have to learn multiple languages to accomodate everyone. The one way street is the person who needs to learn ONE second language to be able to communiate with the majority of the people on the highways of life in the US. How many languages must the cashier at our local FoodLion grocery learn vs the one language each non-English speaking person must learn?

5) And, in closing. Everyone speaking another language, has to make the choice to come to an English speaking country. It's their choice. Now, I'm being forced through taxes to pay for multiple bilignual services and being deemed to ungracious and unaccomodating if I don't choose to spend years of study (time, effort and expense) to support their CHOICE.

FWIW, I was forced to study French in high school in order to graduate. Never utilized, thus lost the few skills I acquired because I never encountered the need to communicate in French. I don't want to be forced again to study another language because someone who choses to come here also choses not to learn English.

 

[TC]

I didn't mean to suggest you learn the languages of groups that simply exist in your same area. But, if you are going to interact with them on a regular basis you should learn their language. Knowing both helps to prevent misunderstandings and encourages unity as a whole in the country.

When I went to Korea, the Koreans expected me to learn their language - more of the same in Germany and Italy. I guess those people were not very hospitable or caring enough to learn English for me. :laugh:

When I go to a country that does not speak English, I expect to have to learn their language to get along (which is what they expect). When someone comes here, I expect them to learn English. If you think that makes us bad people, y'all just gonna hafta get over it. :saint: