Taking Care Of Business II

[poncho]

It was the incarnation of blind and insensate Greed. It was a monster devouring with a thousand mouths, trampling with a thousand hoofs ... it was the spirit of Capitalism made flesh ... it wiped out thousands of businesses every year, it drove men to madness and suicide. It had forced the price of cattle so low as to destroy the stock-raising industry ... it had ruined butchers who refused to carry its products. It divided the country into districts, and fixed the price of meat in all of them ... Upton Sinclair, The Jungle, 1906.

Spurred by that book and cattlemen's complaints, in 1918 the FTC found "evidence of two generations of combined effort on the part of the American meat packers, particularly the Armour, Swift and Morris families, to control an ever increasing part of the food of the American people." The meatpackers were "skilled in concealing" their collusion and maintained "the appearance of competition," the FTC said.

CONTINUE . . .

What does collusion mean? That's the same as conspire isn't it?

Definition of COLLUDE

: conspire, plot <colluded to keep prices high>

Examples of COLLUDE

1. The two companies had colluded to fix prices.
2. <accused of colluding to block the sale of the vacant land>

SOURCE

Some people would have us believe that there's never any "conspiring" going on at these mega conglomerations today. Why to even make mention of it brings on shouts of "conspiracy theorist" and "wacko crazy nutcase".

Who are these people and why do you suppose they'd want us to believe such a thing when history always proves them wrong? I wonder if the meat packers of the early 1900's called Upton Siclair, the FTC and the cattlemen "wacko collusion theorists"?

Where does our meat come from today? Four mega corporations. Soon to be just three?

 

[InTheLight]

Some people would have us believe that there's never any "conspiring" going on at these mega conglomerations today.
Who are these people and why do you suppose they'd want us to believe such a thing

Yes, who are they? Are they on BB?

 

[poncho]

The people who would have us believe the consoldation of power into fewer and fewer hands is good for us. Or doesn't exist at all. From the corporate controlled president on down through the corporate controlled congress and on again down to the mass conglomerated corporate controlled media.

Then on down to a few BBer's who echo their words and post their corporate funded findings as proof positive of their innocence and good intentions.

Saw a neat cartoon while I was searching up stuff for this thread. A cow standing at the entrance of a slaughter house, there were two doors leading to the same killing floor one was marked left and the other was marked right.

Sometime this week I'd like to compare the corporate controlled administrations of Bush and Obama. It might make it a bit easier to understand what I'm trying to get at with the cow cartoon.

 

[InTheLight]

The people who would have us believe the consoldation of power into fewer and fewer hands is good for us. Or doesn't exist at all. From the corporate controlled president on down through the corporate controlled congress and on again down to the mass conglomerated corporate controlled media.

Capitalistic societies have the profit motive. The profit motive makes companies efficient at maximizing profits, and causes corporations to act and behave in similar manners. Is that collusion? I don't think so.

However, I'm sure there are times, as the meatpacking example you gave, where corporations in the same sector deliberately manipulated markets. I think it could happen in certain commodities markets. I think that happens to some extent in the oil industry when it comes to the amount of refined gasoline the company's output. Do the CEOs of the oil companies have secret meetings where they lay out exact amounts of gasoline supplies they will refine? I wouldn't put it past them.

 

[poncho]

What we're seeing today isn't capitalism. It's corporatism. The merging of business and government. It's also known as fascism. Corporations today don't just lobby our government they are our government. That's something I hope to show by comparing the Bush and Obama administrations and maybe some others to boot.

 

[targus]

But do these conglomerations of corporations force you to buy their products?

Are there absolutely no alternatives?

Perhaps if you stopped rolling over for them you would not feel like such a victim.

 

[saturneptune]

But do these conglomerations of corporations force you to buy their products?

Are there absolutely no alternatives?

Perhaps if you stopped rolling over for them you would not feel like such a victim.

Perhaps if you would quit following Poncho around for the purpose of irritating him, you would be something other than a troll.

 

[targus]

Perhaps if you would quit following Poncho around for the purpose of irritating him, you would be something other than a troll.

It was a legitimate question which he will no doubt never answer that goes directly to his OP.

It will probably in short order be asked again in this thread by others but remain unanswered - as with his first thread claiming that corporations dictate what we eat, drink, breath, how we work, etc.

 

[poncho]

Targus has a point here. No one is forcing us to support these giant corporations. In the recent past I have posted several articles written by Tony Cartalucci that calls for boycotting them.

Here's one of them. CLICK HERE.

This is found at the end of the article.

"The real revolution will commence when we identify the above equation as the true brokers of power and when we begin systematically removing our dependence on them, and their influence on us from our daily lives. The global corporate-financier oligarchy needs us, we do not need them, independence from them is the key to our freedom."

Here's another. CLICK HERE.

This is found at the end of the article.

"They need us, we don’t need them. That’s the big secret. We get our freedom back as soon as we take back our responsibilities for food, water, security, the monetary system, power, and manufacturing; that is independence. Independence is freedom, freedom is independence. We’ll never be free as long as we depend on the Fortune 500 for our survival."

"Fixing these problems unfolding overseas starts with fixing the problems in our own backyards. Boycott the globalists, cut off their support, undermine their system, and they lose their ability to commit these atrocities. That will be a real revolution and it can start today. Not burning cities and masked rebels waving flags, but communities no longer dependent and fueling a corrupt system we all know must come to an end."

I've posted quite a few articles by Tony Cartalucci now. Boycotting the globalists is one of his main themes.

So, I answered Targus' question long ago and several times. Evidently he just missed it.

I can post an article but I can't make anyone read it. :smilewinkgrin:

Is that a proper answer Targus?

 

[targus]

Targus has a point here. No one is forcing us to support these giant corporations.
<SNIP>
Is that a proper answer Targus?

Since no one has to buy from these corporations what is the problem?

Sounds like a tempest in a teacup to me.

 

[poncho]

Maybe if more people were informed about the harm these corporations cause they wouldn't buy from them.

For instance how many people would keep buying from Bayer if they knew it's history? The Bayer company sold HIV tainted blood supplies in the United States before congress stepped in and told it to stop.

What did Bayer do after that? It unloaded it's remaining tainted blood supplies in Europe. The Bayer company is responsible for infecting many Europeans with HIV. See this. <-- This is from the New York Times. Not some "conspiracy site".

I suppose in the end it would work out well for them if they also supplied the drugs used to treat HIV. A win win situation for Bayer, to bad for the little people though.

"Other companies known to have sold tainted blood products include Alpha Therapeutics, Baxter, and Centeon." SOURCE

Maybe if more people were more informed alot of things would change for the better. Ya think?

 

[targus]

Maybe if more people were informed about the harm these corporations cause they wouldn't buy from them.

For instance how many people would keep buying from Bayer if they knew it's history? The Bayer company sold HIV tainted blood supplies in the United States before congress stepped in and told it to stop.

What did Bayer do after that? It unloaded it's remaining tainted blood supplies in Europe. The Bayer company is responsible for infecting many Europeans with HIV. See this. <-- This is from the New York Times. Not some "conspiracy site".

I suppose in the end it would work out well for them if they also supplied the drugs used to treat HIV. A win win situation for Bayer, to bad for the little people though.

"Other companies known to have sold tainted blood products include Alpha Therapeutics, Baxter, and Centeon." SOURCE

Maybe if more people were more informed alot of things would change for the better. Ya think?

So who did Bayer conspire with to create the appearance of competition?

That is the topic of the OP isn't it?

 

[poncho]

For a minute there I actually thought you were here to join the discussion Targus. Guess I can be wrong after all. Congratulations you just made a place for yourself on my very short ignore list. :wavey:

 

[targus]

For a minute there I actually thought you were here to join the discussion Targus. Guess I can be wrong after all. Congratulations you just made a place for yourself on my very short ignore list. :wavey:

The OP is supposedly about a conglomeration of corportations the conspire to create an appearance of competition.

I simply asked who it is that Bayer is conspiring with.

Why do you never answer direct questions that ask for support of your OP thesis?

 

[billwald]

How about small "green" manufacturers that are bought out by international corporations and production switched to China while still using the old "green" label? Offhand, "Tom's Of Maine" is one example.

 

[saturneptune]

The OP is supposedly about a conglomeration of corportations the conspire to create an appearance of competition.

I simply asked who it is that Bayer is conspiring with.

Why do you never answer direct questions that ask for support of your OP thesis?

You simply ask questions to disrupt and impede an exchange of ideas. The influence of corporations on our lives and on the government we elect is not documented in black and white doucments, notorized, and signed. What you are asking for is a document signed by the CEO of Bayer and some unknown entitity. If you had any common sense, you would know these are behind the scenes, under the table transactions. However, they do exist, they do take place, and they do have a great impact on our daily lives.

It is kind of like what the Bible says about wind. You can feel it, but cannot see it, or know where it comes or goes, but it is there.

 

[NiteShift]

You simply ask questions to disrupt and impede an exchange of ideas.

Disagree. He asked a legitimate question. Proof that big corporations (or even little bitty ones) have done bad stuff isn't exactly news to any of us.

 

[NiteShift]

And BTW collusion is already illegal. Should we make it more illegal?

 

[targus]

The influence of corporations on our lives and on the government we elect is not documented in black and white doucments, notorized, and signed. What you are asking for is a document signed by the CEO of Bayer and some unknown entitity. If you had any common sense, you would know these are behind the scenes, under the table transactions. However, they do exist, they do take place, and they do have a great impact on our daily lives.

That is the crux of it isn't it?

There are those who go on and on about how well informed they are about the secret behind the scene workings of corporations and the government...

And how they are so willing to share that special knowledge with us common folk if only we weren't so willfully ingorant.

But when asked how it is that they know these secret things the only answer we get is that they know because they know.

 

[poncho]

And BTW collusion is already illegal. Should we make it more illegal?

Then we are all at risk of arrest because we all collude everyday. But not all of us collude to take advantage of others to increase our power and/or profit. I doubt many if any of us here would collude with others to make a buck knowing it may harm a great many others in the process. Like in the examples of Monsanto and Bayer.