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Do you support these public school teachers?
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Interesting thing was that the teachers fear breaking up fights because they may be seen as "too forceful" but then some of them claimed SROs (School Resource [police] Officers) were "abusive" to students. Given the training SROs receive, I doubt they were "abusive" before students were abusive to them, or reacted to being caught doing something they shouldn't have been doing. The teachers are as much a part of the problem as the school administrators. They have a union that teaches the teachers to do anything but teach.
I support the teachers in their concerns, but not the ones that are saying that bringing in more social workers and other professionals to deal with the problems the children have. I believe it would only compound the problem if we continue to turn our schools into bigger social service centers than they already have become. They are meant to be places of learning, not a place of government counseling, profiling, and family intervention.
When they commented on seeing SOR's be abusive, this is one thing that I believe Obama has right - providing more training for them. Not just ones in schools, but having more CIT officers across the country available. Many people do not even know to call and ask for a CIT officer. Poncho just posted a news story about a teenage boy who died at the hands of an officer that I doubt was CIT and quite often, parents do not know to call for one and many places lack that resource.
All SOR's should be CIT.
Back to schools and the issues...not all kids belong in public schools. Mandatory attendance is in and of itself a major problem that contributes to what we're seeing. This is what happens when everyone is "treated the same." Everyone is not the same and when you force everyone to be treated the same, it doesn't magically become all lollipops and rainbows and kittens for all. It becomes a big fat mess and you have emotionally disturbed kids, traumatized kids, psychotic kids, kids that have spent time in jail for sexual assault, your typical kids, kids with ADD, kids with Asperger's, kids with no issues, kids who like hamburgers, kids with some issues, kids who barely speak English, kids with translators, kids with low reading scores, Joe, Sue, Daisha, Lin, and that kid who hasn't picked a name yet all sitting together in the same classroom and they all have the same teacher and if anything goes wrong, every single parent, every single administrator, and every single other person is going to look at the teacher who was standing in the room and point the finger.
Because for some reason, it was his/her idea to mash all that up together and make him/her responsible if they didn't all get passing grades, the higher scoring ones to have been challenged and to have exceeded, and do it without anyone getting upset, hurt, emotionally challenged, sick too long, late to class too often, and the teacher also should have managed to put in enough mandatory volunteer hours on top of it all.
Oh, and a fight? If he/she does step in, then whose fault is any injury?
And let's think about injuries and fights.
Sure, there are fights. That's bad. It's dangerous. In some places, it's likely not reported enough.
Or maybe, too much.
Because how many people stop to think about who attends and what is going on with a child who causes an injury?
Education is mandatory, no matter what is going on with a child. There are children attending school with IQ's that are not high enough to comprehend what they are doing. Some are violent and have no clue that they are hurting someone, or are not capable of that type of control. They are allowed to attend school until they are 21 years old. When you hear about a child hitting a teacher, your first reaction is always to blame it on a child being a horrible person.
I think you'd be surprised to find out just how many injuries are caused by children and teens (and in some cases, "adult" students) with mental health issues or otherwise. They may be going through medication adjustments. Psychotropic drugs (and others) can wreak havoc when they're being tried, adjusted, or just not working the same anymore, or when something is undiagnosed and still being checked out. Even a diabetic with blood sugar going out of whack can have some pretty wild emotional things going on and a child is much less likely to be able to maintain control.
Take all that into consideration, then consider the amount of sugar and chemicals being fed for breakfast and lunch at school... (had to throw that in there, hehe)
I'll continue to say, as long as I have breath, that not all kids belong in public school, at least not together. Make a separate place if everyone feels that mandatory schooling must continue, but it isn't fair and it isn't working to have this level of disruption and violence in our schools. It's ridiculous what is constantly humming in the background and what the majority of parents just don't know about their schools. What teachers and admins don't know. They aren't allowed to know. Privacy rights for the kiddos. You could have a rapist sitting on the bus next to your six year old. They could have stabbed someone before. Nice, huh? You're not allowed to know. He/she, as a juvenile, has that right to privacy.
You like that? You think this is okay? I don't think it is.
When they commented on seeing SOR's be abusive, this is one thing that I believe Obama has right - providing more training for them. Not just ones in schools, but having more CIT officers across the country available. Many people do not even know to call and ask for a CIT officer. Poncho just posted a news story about a teenage boy who died at the hands of an officer that I doubt was CIT and quite often, parents do not know to call for one and many places lack that resource.
All SOR's should be CIT.
Back to schools and the issues...not all kids belong in public schools. Mandatory attendance is in and of itself a major problem that contributes to what we're seeing. This is what happens when everyone is "treated the same." Everyone is not the same and when you force everyone to be treated the same, it doesn't magically become all lollipops and rainbows and kittens for all. It becomes a big fat mess and you have emotionally disturbed kids, traumatized kids, psychotic kids, kids that have spent time in jail for sexual assault, your typical kids, kids with ADD, kids with Asperger's, kids with no issues, kids who like hamburgers, kids with some issues, kids who barely speak English, kids with translators, kids with low reading scores, Joe, Sue, Daisha, Lin, and that kid who hasn't picked a name yet all sitting together in the same classroom and they all have the same teacher and if anything goes wrong, every single parent, every single administrator, and every single other person is going to look at the teacher who was standing in the room and point the finger.
Because for some reason, it was his/her idea to mash all that up together and make him/her responsible if they didn't all get passing grades, the higher scoring ones to have been challenged and to have exceeded, and do it without anyone getting upset, hurt, emotionally challenged, sick too long, late to class too often, and the teacher also should have managed to put in enough mandatory volunteer hours on top of it all.
Oh, and a fight? If he/she does step in, then whose fault is any injury?
And let's think about injuries and fights.
Sure, there are fights. That's bad. It's dangerous. In some places, it's likely not reported enough.
Or maybe, too much.
Because how many people stop to think about who attends and what is going on with a child who causes an injury?
Education is mandatory, no matter what is going on with a child. There are children attending school with IQ's that are not high enough to comprehend what they are doing. Some are violent and have no clue that they are hurting someone, or are not capable of that type of control. They are allowed to attend school until they are 21 years old. When you hear about a child hitting a teacher, your first reaction is always to blame it on a child being a horrible person.
I think you'd be surprised to find out just how many injuries are caused by children and teens (and in some cases, "adult" students) with mental health issues or otherwise. They may be going through medication adjustments. Psychotropic drugs (and others) can wreak havoc when they're being tried, adjusted, or just not working the same anymore, or when something is undiagnosed and still being checked out. Even a diabetic with blood sugar going out of whack can have some pretty wild emotional things going on and a child is much less likely to be able to maintain control.
Take all that into consideration, then consider the amount of sugar and chemicals being fed for breakfast and lunch at school... (had to throw that in there, hehe)
I'll continue to say, as long as I have breath, that not all kids belong in public school, at least not together. Make a separate place if everyone feels that mandatory schooling must continue, but it isn't fair and it isn't working to have this level of disruption and violence in our schools. It's ridiculous what is constantly humming in the background and what the majority of parents just don't know about their schools. What teachers and admins don't know. They aren't allowed to know. Privacy rights for the kiddos. You could have a rapist sitting on the bus next to your six year old. They could have stabbed someone before. Nice, huh? You're not allowed to know. He/she, as a juvenile, has that right to privacy.
You like that? You think this is okay? I don't think it is.
WRONG! My wife is a public school teacher. The real problems in schools are:
-inept school boards
-inept administrators
- parents who don't care if their kids learn
- curriculum now = "teach to standardized tests"
- lazy/unmotivated children
- inept school teachers
- unlawful hiring practices (ie, they hire a football coach and give him an emergency special education license. Coach has no idea how to teach let alone ANYTHING about special ed law and teaching. Corrupt school officials hire coach even though they must hire a fully licenced special ed teacher....even though they have TWO QUALIFIED, LICENCED FEMALE SPECIAL EDUCATION TEACHERS. --- oh yeah, we were un the receiving end of that one and the STATE SUPERINTENDENT refused to do anything about it, even though I had sent my wife's resume via registered mail.
-meanwhile, a lot of good teachers are getting tired of the red tape, all the "data collection", being an arm of Child Protective services, crisis counsellors, and bouncers...it is no wonder they are leaving. I'm talking about the good ones.
To be sure, the process in Indiana has helped weed out the inept teachers. But unless they do a wholesale sweep of the system that would include idiotic administration, roughing up those Union Thugs called teachers will accomplish little.
-Finally, the teachers union in Indiana lost collective bargaining power. They are treated as scum and as enemies. And when my wife has ever had to file a complaint ON BEHALF OF A SPECIAL EDUCATION STUDENT not getting the services guaranteed by LAW, the union people fold like chairs!
I'm sorry, if you as a union refuse to stand up to a corrupt administrator because they are cheating a special needs out of their EIP, then I have no use for unions.
I do not stand with unions. I stand with my wife and others like her who fight bravely a war that they will ultimately never win.
Teachers have been handcuffed. They cannot even yell at a kid without the possibility of being sued or fired.
My 4th grade teacher had a rubber hose and she would use it. She would be fired and put in jail now.
My 4th grade teacher had a rubber hose and she would use it. She would be fired and put in jail now.
That is EXACTLY why I feel like mainstreaming kids is not working and will not work and should be maintained in a separate school where the kids can get the attention and focus they need and deserve.
I know many will fight and say it makes kids stand out and feel different. Well, that's the thing. Everyone IS different and when we quit trying to force everyone to be the same, maybe then they'll be able to live up to that potential everyone keeps trying to say is supposed to magically happen with all the standardized testing and benchmarks.
SPED kids end up missing crucial class time to go to speech, or make up this or that, or do this part of an IEP or catch up on a mainstreamed class. This wouldn't happen in a school where they aren't cramming everything in and trying to make everyone fit in boxes at the expense of the kids themselves and at the expense of the teachers. The two most important factors in the schools are being sacrificed, and for what? Money and to appease ignorance. And oh yeah. Sports. So important later in life, because soooo many end up being in professional sports...
One size does not fit all. To make special education work, a school should have inclusion AND a self-contained classroom for those who just CAN'T make in inclusion. One size does not fit all.
I'm passionate because our son is high-function autistic. He's at the top of his class in reading & math. I'd hate to see him taken to self-contained room.
I don't believe it, but our sxhool tried to cheat him out of services, as they always do. The sad part/stupid part was they KNEW my wife taught special education and yet they tried to NOT help him with speech! Needless to say, their attempt failed. And my wife told them "I know you all are used to special education teachers who are lazy, don't know Title 7 and what is legal...because you have so many that work here. I am NOT that kind. I'm that OTHER kind that knows my parental rights."
I'm passionate because our son is high-function autistic. He's at the top of his class in reading & math. I'd hate to see him taken to self-contained room.
I don't believe it, but our sxhool tried to cheat him out of services, as they always do. The sad part/stupid part was they KNEW my wife taught special education and yet they tried to NOT help him with speech! Needless to say, their attempt failed. And my wife told them "I know you all are used to special education teachers who are lazy, don't know Title 7 and what is legal...because you have so many that work here. I am NOT that kind. I'm that OTHER kind that knows my parental rights."
To drink with?
Some years ago, a school tried doing the same with one of my kids with some needs on an IEP. It went round and round for months, then I got ticked and ended up getting hold of someone who managed funding for one of their programs, she called, and the IEP was set up and in motion within 24 hours.
And that ended up being a pivotal moment when learning to deal with public schools - that's what works if you have a kid who isn't being treated right and they don't care, no matter what department. They care when it comes to their funding. Of course if that happens more than once in the same school, highly consider home schooling. You don't want your kid in a school that doesn't care. Sometimes a school just needs a kick in the pants in a certain area of functioning.
JD, I'm not sure how your school works. I have seen ones where SPED rooms are self-contained, but students who excel in certain subjects move with other SPED students to other rooms for those classes, still with a SPED teacher for other needs that may come up, and return to the self-contained room for the ones where they need it taught at a different pace.
Another main issue with mainstreaming to regular classrooms, imo lies in the issue of privacy. Student health and education records are often over-protected. I say that because - well, they are, imo, and that can endanger some sped students when they are in a regular classroom and in walks a teacher who is unfamiliar with that student. Their teacher knows them. If that teacher gets the flu and a substitute teacher walks in, that teacher is not your child's teacher. It is, in many cases, not going to be legal to disclose your child's information to that person or they just don't think to do it. A typical teacher walking into a typical classroom is not a SPED teacher. It's my personal opinion that this is not a good situation for the student, the teacher, or the classroom. They don't know what might trigger your student or how to deescalate a situation or what might be a medical problem. They might not clue in on a behavior issue, or realize that this child leaves five minutes early every day for counseling or therapy and if you force him/her to explain in front of the class, that's the end of their world and they may run, because they normally walk out the door quietly without wanting to be confronted or spoken to about it. Or maybe they just needed the break and they are allowed to walk out, and their teacher knows they always go to Ms. XYZ and she always calls you within 60 seconds to confirm that student got there.
It just seems like everyone is frustrated, and it's not working all the way, on multiple levels.
And that ended up being a pivotal moment when learning to deal with public schools - that's what works if you have a kid who isn't being treated right and they don't care, no matter what department. They care when it comes to their funding. Of course if that happens more than once in the same school, highly consider home schooling. You don't want your kid in a school that doesn't care. Sometimes a school just needs a kick in the pants in a certain area of functioning.
JD, I'm not sure how your school works. I have seen ones where SPED rooms are self-contained, but students who excel in certain subjects move with other SPED students to other rooms for those classes, still with a SPED teacher for other needs that may come up, and return to the self-contained room for the ones where they need it taught at a different pace.
Another main issue with mainstreaming to regular classrooms, imo lies in the issue of privacy. Student health and education records are often over-protected. I say that because - well, they are, imo, and that can endanger some sped students when they are in a regular classroom and in walks a teacher who is unfamiliar with that student. Their teacher knows them. If that teacher gets the flu and a substitute teacher walks in, that teacher is not your child's teacher. It is, in many cases, not going to be legal to disclose your child's information to that person or they just don't think to do it. A typical teacher walking into a typical classroom is not a SPED teacher. It's my personal opinion that this is not a good situation for the student, the teacher, or the classroom. They don't know what might trigger your student or how to deescalate a situation or what might be a medical problem. They might not clue in on a behavior issue, or realize that this child leaves five minutes early every day for counseling or therapy and if you force him/her to explain in front of the class, that's the end of their world and they may run, because they normally walk out the door quietly without wanting to be confronted or spoken to about it. Or maybe they just needed the break and they are allowed to walk out, and their teacher knows they always go to Ms. XYZ and she always calls you within 60 seconds to confirm that student got there.
It just seems like everyone is frustrated, and it's not working all the way, on multiple levels.