Marine Corps Sgt Major speaks

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to actually read the article. NOWHERE DID THE SGT MAJOR advocate CUTTING THE PAY of GI's. He recommended that the PROPOSED increase be cut.

The proposed increase, as I noted previously, is less than the inflation/cost-of-iving rate, and a cut of increase to nearly half the proposal makes it that much worse.

Interesting, several years ago, this is the exact same thing that Rush mentioned about welfare payments - and conservatives ate that up.

Bush never proposed a lesser increase that resulted in cost-of-living increases failing to match inflation.

 

[Salty]

...Cutting the pay or cutting the increase has very little difference and they are both equally stupid and will both produce the same results..

They are NOT the same thing.

And he is an idiot because he thinks Marines do not worry about pay and benefits. It is the top priority as it is with anyone else. I never heard anything so ridiculous come out of the mouth of someone from the headshed.

I have been thinking about this since I started this thread. I have re-enlisted several times when I was active duty. Never ONCE did the % of increase of pay - have ANY factor in my decision to re-up. I agree with the SGM - troops may talk about it - but it is down the ladder of importance by a few rungs. Too many other important issues to be concerned about.

 

[Revmitchell]

They are NOT the same thing.

I did not say they were.

I have been thinking about this since I started this thread. I have re-enlisted several times when I was active duty. Never ONCE did the % of increase of pay - have ANY factor in my decision to re-up. I agree with the SGM - troops may talk about it - but it is down the ladder of importance by a few rungs. Too many other important issues to be concerned about.

I'm sorry weren't you in the guard? Have you ever been full time active duty? You can agree but today's troops do not. Especially those with families.

 

[Sapper Woody]

When I joined the army as an E1, I felt rich. It was just me and the wife with one on the way. We were making enough money to realize our dream: she could be a stay at home mom.

Now, as an E5 with 3 kids, I qualify for WIC and food stamps (which I don't get, FYI). I am not complaining about my pay at all. We get by just fine and have everything we need, and most of what we want. But I find it odd that the government says I am not making enough to feed my family, but then fight a pay raise. There's a disconnect somewhere.

 

[Salty]

...I'm sorry weren't you in the guard? Have you ever been full time active duty? You can agree but today's troops do not. Especially those with families.

Yes - I spend many years on full active duty with the US Army - and I had a family with me, including when I was overseas.

 

[Salty]

...Now, as an E5 with 3 kids, I qualify for WIC and food stamps (which I don't get, FYI). ...the government says I am not making enough to feed my family, but then fight a pay raise. There's a disconnect somewhere.

Just curious - when Food Stamps goes to confirm your eligibility - do they consider ONLY Basic Pay, or do they include BAQ, Sep Rats, ect as income?

 

[Sapper Woody]

Just curious - when Food Stamps goes to confirm your eligibility - do they consider ONLY Basic Pay, or do they include BAQ, Sep Rats, ect as income?

To be perfectly honest, I don't know. We do receive WIC, and the WIC office told us that we would qualify if we applied. So I can't give a straight answer about that.

And don't get me wrong, I think I make enough money. I take care of my family, and have a tiny bit left over for some extras, like eating out once a week. But I find it odd that the government is saying "you make enough" while also saying "you don't make enough". One or the other has to be wrong.

 

[Salty]

...And don't get me wrong, I think I make enough money. I take care of my family, and have a tiny bit left over for some extras, like eating out once a week. But I find it odd that the government is saying "you make enough" while also saying "you don't make enough". One or the other has to be wrong.

The point I am trying to make (and confirm) is that if Food Stamps does NOT count BAQ and Sep Rats- they are not getting the full picture. Looking at the pay charts - your BAQ is nearly 50% of your Basic pay. Counting only Basic pay, it appears you might be eligible for SNAP - but when you include BAQ - it puts you over the threshhold.

 

[Sapper Woody]

Update: talked to the wife, and for food stamps they look at your entire income; base pay, housing, subsistence, and COLA if applicable. I make $100 too much per month for food stamps. But my buddy applied. E5 with 4 kids. And he was approved.

 

[Revmitchell]

Our Military should not be so poorly paid that they have to apply for assistance. According to current standards they are living in poverty. Making these cuts to pay increases is absurd.

 

[JonC]

I have been thinking about this since I started this thread. I have re-enlisted several times when I was active duty. Never ONCE did the % of increase of pay - have ANY factor in my decision to re-up. I agree with the SGM - troops may talk about it - but it is down the ladder of importance by a few rungs. Too many other important issues to be concerned about.

Same here. A % increase in pay never influenced my decision to re-enlist (for the most part, I don't recall ever tracking the increase). After 10 1/2 years I ETS'd and joined the National Guard. A year and a half later the pay and benefits (mostly the benefits) did influence my decision to go active duty once again.

Now that I am retiring I realize more the value of military pay and benefits. I have a good job lined up, one paying above average in my area, but with retirement pay I will still realize a 12K annual loss in income (may be less of a loss depending on VA) - not to mention having to pay more for life and dental insurance (I never realized how much dental would cost...and not cover ).

 

[JonC]

Our Military should not be so poorly paid that they have to apply for assistance. According to current standards they are living in poverty. Making these cuts to pay increases is absurd.

How do you determine that "according to current standards they are living in poverty"?


I do not believe that our military members are overpaid. But I do not believe that they are "living in poverty" except due perhaps to mismanagement of personal finances. Around your area (using 88221 zip for BAH), a SGT E-5 with dependents and 6 yrs service would make $51,072.60 annually. A brand new private E-1 with dependents would make $35,520 annually (but wouldn’t be an E-1 for more than a few months). To enlist, an applicant can’t have more than 2 children, but even with 3 children the new private would make above poverty level using the 2014 guidelines (ASPE.hhs.gov, although I believe the “poverty level” to be unrealistically low).

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[Revmitchell]

If they are qualifying for food stamps and other benefits they are living in poverty. Add to that there are a great many of our military that are working part time jobs.

 

[JonC]

If they are qualifying for food stamps and other benefits they are living in poverty. Add to that there are a great many of our military that are working part time jobs.

Most who qualify for food stamps (that I know of…and I don’t see how it could be otherwise) are using their taxable income. Food stamp eligibility is based off of earned income. Those I know of are reporting their non-earned income – but the office excludes it from the calculation.



Consider what Sapper Woody says (IMHO he does identify a problem):

Now, as an E5 with 3 kids, I qualify for WIC and food stamps (which I don't get, FYI). I am not complaining about my pay at all. We get by just fine and have everything we need, and most of what we want. But I find it odd that the government says I am not making enough to feed my family, but then fight a pay raise. There's a disconnect somewhere.

I guess the simple question would be whether or not a man with a wife and three children, making $51,072 in Carlsbad New Mexico (over $18k non-taxable, health/dental/life provided) should qualify for food stamps. Depending on their situation, technically they may be able to qualify…but should they qualify?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

How do you determine that "according to current standards they are living in poverty"?


I do not believe that our military members are overpaid. But I do not believe that they are "living in poverty" except due perhaps to mismanagement of personal finances. Around your area (using 88221 zip for BAH), a SGT E-5 with dependents and 6 yrs service would make $51,072.60 annually. A brand new private E-1 with dependents would make $35,520 annually (but wouldn’t be an E-1 for more than a few months). To enlist, an applicant can’t have more than 2 children, but even with 3 children the new private would make above poverty level using the 2014 guidelines (ASPE.hhs.gov, although I believe the “poverty level” to be unrealistically low).

John, this is typical of those who have posted here, protesting that U.S. servicemen and -women "can't possibly be living at the poverty level." Sorry, but it's true, and it isn't because of "mismanagement of personal finances." It's because this administration is paying our fighting forces at a rate worse than at any other time since the Revolutionary War.

CNN: Food stamp use among military rises again

Food stamp redemption at military grocers has been rising steadily since the beginning of the recession in 2008. Nearly $104 million worth of food stamps was redeemed at military commissaries in the fiscal year ended Sept. 30.

"I'm amazed, but there's a very real need," said Thomas Greer, spokesman for Operation Homefront, a nonprofit that helps soldiers on the financial brink nationwide.

Some of the growth in soldiers' redemption of food stamps reflects the weak economic recovery, especially for spouses looking for jobs. In 2012, there was a 30% unemployment rate among spouses off active-duty military who were 18 to 24 years old, according to the Military Officers Association of America, which released the survey last week.

Spouses who have to relocate every few years have a tough time finding work in the private sector.

The article claims a base pay for a new soldier with a wife and a child is about $20,000, with almost an equal amount in housing and food allowances, for an overall income of $40,000. Sorry, but that's horse hockey. An E-1 with less than four months in -- a "new soldier" -- gets $16,545.60 a year, and his housing and food allowance for two dependents getting BAH is 67% of that, or $11,085.55, a total of $27,631.15. CNN's numbers seem to be a bit off.

Military personnel who qualified for food stamps leapt a whopping 70% in 2009. That didn't happen because, overnight, every enlisted person in the U.S. military became inexplicably stupid about money management. It happened because there was this thing called "the recession" that hit that year, and 2009 was about five percent less than current pay, and it wasn't increasing at the rate of inflation then. Now they want to cut this year's increase even farther below the poverty rate.

Just in case you think the increases stopped with the "end" of the recession, think again. Military personnel who qualified for food stamps increased an additional 13% in 2012, and supposedly that was two years after the recession ended. In 2013, military personnel who qualified for assistance rose another 5%, so it isn't money mismanagement. My opinion is, that's nonsense. We're still in a recession. Stagnant growth of less than 2% a year isn't a growing economy. That doesn't even keep up with inflation, even at it's current low rate.

Get off the military's back. Unless you want to stand a wall in their place.

 

[JonC]

John, this is typical of those who have posted here, protesting that U.S. servicemen and -women "can't possibly be living at the poverty level." Sorry, but it's true, and it isn't because of "mismanagement of personal finances." It's because this administration is paying our fighting forces at a rate worse than at any other time since the Revolutionary War.The article claims a base pay for a new soldier with a wife and a child is about $20,000, with almost an equal amount in housing and food allowances, for an overall income of $40,000. Sorry, but that's horse hockey. An E-1 with less than four months in -- a "new soldier" -- gets $16,545.60 a year, and his housing and food allowance for two dependents getting BAH is 67% of that, or $11,085.55, a total of $27,631.15. CNN's numbers seem to be a bit off.

I remember when I went in as an E-2. I made $845.10 before taxes to support my family (until recently one did not receive BAH while in initial training).



A new soldier (E-1 with less than 4 months) makes $1,416.30 a month. This is the hardest time for one with dependents. The soldier is at training and does not receive BAS. He does, however, receive BAH based on his HOR. I’ll use my location (because it is low…too low). That’s $969. For 4 months his wife has to support their family on $2,385.30 minus tax on the base pay. After 4 months his pay increases to $2,500.5.

So a new soldier (supposing E-1 the entire year) with a wife and a child (it actually doesn’t matter the number of children, if any, anymore…it’s either with or without dependents) makes $9,541.20 for 4 months, 20,004.00 for 8 months…that’s $29,545.20 for the first year assuming he is training the entire time and not receiving BAS.


A soldier E-1 without dependents makes 5665.2 as 4 months pay, $12,252.00 for 8 months, which is $17,917.20 for the first year (which is taxable – and again assuming he remains a E-1 for the entire year). For an individual without dependents, he is still above the poverty level (ASPE.hss.gov).

http://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/site/bahCalc.cfm
http://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/militarypaytables.html

Get off the military's back. Unless you want to stand a wall in their place.

I’m not sure what to make of this comment, if directed at me. First, I am not on the “military’s back.” They earn the money they receive…and more. BUT having dealt with people in poverty (many of their own making), military pay is not at poverty level. AND I am in that place and have been for 23 years…at least until 1 Sep when I become a retiree.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I’m not sure what to make of this comment, if directed at me.

Sorry, my bad. It was directed at everyone on the thread who seems to think soldiers are mismanaging their money, as that's the only reason they can see as making food stamps necessary. It was not directed at you, and I apologize for not making a differentiation.

 

[Salty]

JonC said:
I remember when I went in as an E-2. I made $845.10 before taxes to support my family (until recently one did not receive BAH while in initial training).

Back in the day - when my first paycheck was $124.50/month (before dedcuctions) Basic Housing for Allowance ( BAH) was $60. If you had a child(ren) it was an extra $40. And to top that off, you did not get that $60 unless you took out an allotment for at least $100 which was mailed directly to your wife! And the check was made out to her - which meant I could not cash it.
One other thing - BAH is tax free. So today if you had an allowance of 1000 dollars, a civilian would need to make nearly 1200 dollars for approximately a net of $1,000.

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JonC also said
assuming he is training the entire time and not receiving BAS.

BAS is Basic allowance for Subsistence. (ie Food).
There are two rates for BAS:
Enlisted 352.27
Officers 242.60

When a GI is in initial training - he does not receive BAS - however - he does eat for free in the mess hall.

From the article: BAS is not intended to cover the costs of meals for family members.

Check out the pay scale for any year
(if I remember correctly, 1 Oct 71 was the large pay raise - an E-1 received a 100% pay raise)


Sarge Salty


Note: The quote function was inop

 

[Salty]

Sorry, my bad. It was directed at everyone on the thread who seems to think soldiers are mismanaging their money, as that's the only reason they can see as making food stamps necessary. It was not directed at you, and I apologize for not making a differentiation.

Some soliders do mismange thier money. As an NCO, I have seen it. I have had to send men to the Red Cross and AER (Army Emergancy Relief) for assitance.

Let me give you one perfect example - In 1981, I had an E-4 - and married. His base pay was a little over $600 a month. (plus Rats and BAH)

He comes to me one day complaing about his bank charges. His wife had written six checks - which overdrew the account- Not a problem, Ft Hood National Bank allowed overdrafts up to your monthly pay. however, they charged you $15 per overdraft. $15 X 6 = $90! I infomed "Hershy" that if he had writtten one check for $100 he would have saved $75. At least three of those checks were for $10 or less That was mismagment of funds. And yes, I did give him some additional counseling.

I could give other examples as well.

How many young GI's (think they) have to go out and buy:
An expensive vehicle
the latest stero system
the full line of Cable movie channels
A whole new wardrobe
Excessive number of credit cards
Gambling
and the list goes on.

I am not saying all GI's mismanage money. However, too many do fall into that trap.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I sent money home to feed my younger brothers and sisters. I bought my parents their first color TV. I had a souped up Dodge Dart. I managed to dress nice. And I always made sure to bring something home when I went somewhere. I took a week of leave and drove to the world's fair. All at a max of E-4.

I managed to do quite well in the Navy, and even had about $11,000 when I signed my DD-214.