Moral Clarity in Gaza

[Rolfe]

Moral clarity in Gaza

By Charles Krauthammer

Rarely does international politics present a moment of such moral clarity. Yet we routinely hear this Israel-Gaza fighting described as a morally equivalent “cycle of violence.” This is absurd. What possible interest can Israel have in cross-border fighting? Everyone knows Hamas set off this mini-war. And everyone knows the proudly self-declared raison d’etre of Hamas: the eradication of Israel and its Jews.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-moral-clarity-in-gaza/2014/07/17/0adabe0c-0de4-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html

Spot on.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Two years and a half years ago, Mitt Romney said, "Mr. Obama has thrown Israel under the bus." The mainstream media ignored it, because throwing Israel under the bus is popular among liberals today. Why Jewish Americans continue to vote for this political agenda is nothing short of baffling.

U.S. Joint Chiefs Chairman at the time, General Martin Dempsey, said in August 2012, before the election mind you, that he "didn't want to be complicit" if Israel chose to attack Iran's nuclear facilities. No top-ranking U.S. military officer says anything that provocative without orders form the president. Shortly afterward, it became known that, months before, prior to the possibility gaining traction as a news story, Obama had cancelled joint exercises in the Mediterranean with Israel as his sign of displeasure over Israel even considering taking out the Iran facilities.

As Hamas has steadily ramped up missile attacks, kidnapped Israeli soldiers and civilians -- the most recent of the latter being the three teens, one a U.S. citizen, who were found shot to death near Hebron -- and sponsored regional terrorism with a primary focus on Israel and Jews in general, what has Obama done? Worse than nothing. He expanded his cooperation with the Hamas-Fatah government earlier in the summer, and it was not long afterward that the kidnappings occurred.

Obama continues to negotiate with Iran despite mounting evidence Iran is not negotiating so much as stalling for time to complete its development of supposedly civilian nuclear power that is easily converted to military use in the form of a launchable weapon. And the liberal media continues to paint Israel as the villain, ignoring its forced eviction of thousands of its own people from Gaza ten years ago in order to turn the Strip over to Palestinian control, ignoring the thousands of missiles launched since then from Gaza into Israel, ignoring the tunnel systems that daily smuggle terrorists and their weapons into Israel, ignoring the dozens of suicide bombers that as a result have killed and injured hundreds of Israelis in their local markets and places of business.

Israel should have done this a long time ago. To heck with what Obama wants to do, to heck with what the media says. In the war between the barbarian and the civilized man, we should support the civilized man. If not, then who supports us when the barbarian attacks here?

 

[Rolfe]

Re: Post #2- My own personal opinion is that anti-Semitism plays a larger part than many are willing to admit.

 

[poncho]

This 71-page report provides witness accounts of the devastating effects that white phosphorus munitions had on civilians and civilian property in Gaza. Human Rights Watch researchers in Gaza immediately after hostilities ended found spent shells, canister liners, and dozens of burnt felt wedges containing white phosphorus on city streets, apartment roofs, residential courtyards, and at a United Nations school. The report also presents ballistics evidence, photographs, and satellite imagery, as well as documents from the Israeli military and government.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2009/03/25/rain-fire

 

[Rolfe]

This 71-page report provides witness accounts of the devastating effects that white phosphorus munitions had on civilians and civilian property in Gaza. Human Rights Watch researchers in Gaza immediately after hostilities ended found spent shells, canister liners, and dozens of burnt felt wedges containing white phosphorus on city streets, apartment roofs, residential courtyards, and at a United Nations school. The report also presents ballistics evidence, photographs, and satellite imagery, as well as documents from the Israeli military and government.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2009/03/25/rain-fire

George Soros getting his money's worth?

Not to mention the anti-Semitic reputation...

 

[poncho]

George Soros getting his money's worth?

Not to mention the anti-Semitic reputation...

Are you of the opinion that questioning the Israeli government's actions and motives = being "anti-Semitic"?

George Soros and the State Dept does a regular "bang up" job destabilizing nations for the benefit of a few. Like Ukraine for instance.

 

[Rolfe]

Are you of the opinion that question the Israeli government's actions = being "anti-Semitic"?

I question the objectivity of your source.

 

[poncho]

I question the objectivity of your source.

Then we're even aren't we? How can you be certain of your source's "objectivity"?

 

[Rolfe]

Then we're even aren't we?

No. The Krauthammer article was an opinion piece, not a "report".

 

[poncho]

No. The Krauthammer article was an opinion piece, not a "report".

A source is a source. Your source provides an opinion and mine evidence.

I guess it all depends on which you hold in higher regard. I lean more towards evidence, especially when those who claim it is being presented by "racists" in an attempt to dismiss and/or suppress it.

 

[Rolfe]

A source is a source. Your source provides an opinion and mine evidence.

I guess it all depends on which you hold in higher regard. I lean more towards evidence, especially when those who claim it is being presented by "racists" in an attempt to dismiss and/or suppress it.

Evidence presented by a dubious source...

Kind of explains the infatuation with Infowars. :laugh:

 

[poncho]

Evidence presented by a dubious source...

Kind of explains the infatuation with Infowars. :laugh:

Is this the extent of your argument?

 

[Don]

Poncho - what exactly is your point by referencing a March 2009 report in a thread regarding comments made in July 2014?

 

[poncho]

Poncho - what exactly is your point by referencing a March 2009 report in a thread regarding comments made in July 2014?

I dunno I guess I just enjoy being called a racist by people who would otherwise denounce those who call other people racists Don.

 

[Rolfe]

I dunno I guess I just enjoy being called a racist by people who would otherwise denounce those who call other people racists Don.

Nobody called you a racist, Poncho.

Playing a victim does not suit you.

 

[poncho]

Nobody called you a racist, Poncho.

Playing a victim does not suit you.

Did I claim someone called me a racist? No.

It does seem to be a common practice for those who defend Israel without question to call those who question the Israeli's tactics and motives racist. Of course they're the same people who complain bitterly when Obama supporters call them racists for questioning his tactics and motives.

So, I fully expect to be called a racist when I question the Israeli's tactics and motives.

I'm still waiting for an answer though . . .

Are you of the opinion that questioning the Israeli government's actions and motives = being "anti-Semitic"?

I only ask because I'm trying to figure out if it's a waste of time to try to have a discussion with you on the subject. Christian's objectivity and empathy for other's suffering seems to be very one sided when it comes to Israel. From what you have posted so far I am assuming it would be a waste of time.

 

[Rolfe]

Did I claim someone called me a racist? No.

Sure you did.

Poncho - what exactly is your point by referencing a March 2009 report in a thread regarding comments made in July 2014?

I dunno I guess I just enjoy being called a racist by people who would otherwise denounce those who call other people racists Don.

 

[Rolfe]

Are you of the opinion that questioning the Israeli government's actions and motives = being "anti-Semitic"?

Of course not. I do, however, believe it legitimate to question organizations' reputations when they appear dubious.

I only ask because I'm trying to figure out if it's a waste of time to try to have a discussion with you on the subject.

I can almost guarantee that you will come to that conclusion whatever my opinion is. After all, I am one of the Sheeple. :laugh:

 

[preachinjesus]

Re: Post #2- My own personal opinion is that anti-Semitism plays a larger part than many are willing to admit.

Questioning the legitimacy of a government and their actions does not equal anti-Semitism.

Recognizing the political Israel today has nothing to do the biblical Israel is likewise not anti-Semitic. Attempting to sling around this moniker to defeat those with legitimate questions is the tool of an anti-intellectual. There is some anti-Semitism which exists in this world, but it is often not found in those attempting to work through legitimate arguments and questions.

There is much to be said about Hamas' provocations in this current affair. Israel doesn't take the morally questionable ground of hiding their military array among their citizenry. However, as the terrorists from Hamas have shown, these terrorists are more than happy to kill the citizenry of Israel without question. Asking Israel to then abstain from going after these targets, embedded in clear site around civilian shields, is difficult to do.

 

[Rolfe]

Questioning the legitimacy of a government and their actions does not equal anti-Semitism.

If I read this correctly, you are assuming that I do. I do not. I was referring to TND's post number two and the appearance of anti-Semitism as evidenced in this Administration's actions.