If Andy Stanley were the "Evangelical Pope"

[JonC]

I guess he uses Aesop's Fables to lead ppl to Christ?

Is that what you believe, that Andy Stanley does not use Scripture to preach, teach, or lead people to Christ?

I don't know much about the man, but I believe his sermons are online. Let's check them out and see if he rejects the use of Scripture as I may be mistaking and you may not be a gossip.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Is that what you believe, that Andy Stanley does not use Scripture to preach, teach, or lead people to Christ?

I don't know much about the man, but I believe his sermons are online. Let's check them out and see if he rejects the use of Scripture as I may be mistaking and you may not be a gossip.

He was teetering upon g@y-affirmation per an article posted on here a few years ago...
He said to take the spotlight off of the bible...
He said Pastors should not be called shepherds. He said he was more like a CEO...

I am seeing a bad pattern here...

 

[JonC]

He was teetering upon g@y-affirmation per an article posted on here a few years ago...
He said to take the spotlight off of the bible...
He said Pastors should not be called shepherds. He said he was more like a CEO...

I am seeing a bad pattern here...

I don't trust your discernment enough to slander another pastor. Perhaps you would be better to keep your "patterns" to yourself and simply be faithful in what God has entrusted to you.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I guess chapter 1 of the
--WCoF
--LBCoF
--PCoF
--Heidelberg Catechism...

mean nothing into today's churches...

 

[StefanM]

Words have weight Brother. Pastors are to be held to higher standards as they are shepherds of the local flock. But Mr. Stanley wants to be a CEO and not a shepherd. That is 'Clifford the Big Red Flag.'

He's definitely said some questionable things. I just don't think that he meant (this time) what many are thinking.

Don't get me wrong---I'm not holding up Andy Stanley as the model pastor by any stretch. His tendency to shoot his mouth off is a big problem.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I don't trust your discernment enough to slander another pastor. Perhaps you would be better to keep your "patterns" to yourself and simply be faithful in what God has entrusted to you.

Don't trust my discernment? Srsly? Where did I err? I used his OWN WORDS. There was an article about him teetering upon g@y-affirmation, and I posted a video about him rejecting the notion of pastors really being shepherds. I correctly pegged him by his OWN WORDS.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I don't trust your discernment enough to slander another pastor. Perhaps you would be better to keep your "patterns" to yourself and simply be faithful in what God has entrusted to you.

I didn't slander the man. He did by his OWN WORDS.

 

[JonC]

I guess chapter 1 of the WCoF, LBCoF, PCoF, Heidelberg Catechism mean nothing into today's churches...

I guess it depends on the church (and the Christian). Insofar as Stanley goes (who is the topic here), I don't know which (if any) confessions he holds to. From what he says he holds to the Bible as the Word of God (from what is posted on his church's website). But I've never attended his church. Like I said, I disagree with his understanding of the role of preaching in the church.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Of those listed, only 2 and 3 have any direct interest to me and mine. Though, I would be more in line with the New Hampshire Statement of Faith.
1 is Anglican and 4 is German Reformed.
List edited for easier reference.

I guess chapter 1 of the

1. WCoF
2. LBCoF
3. PCoF
4. Heidelberg Catechism

mean nothing into today's churches...

 

[StefanM]

You're over reacting and acting on mere emotion here. Give us some Scriptural support for Stanley's 'take the spotlight off the Bible' for us all.

I already did. 1 Corinthians 15, with respect to the resurrection's centrality. If Christ is not raised, nothing matters, including the Bible. But he is raised, and the Bible is the inspired Word of God which testifies about Christ.

The difference is that I don't think that Stanley meant what you think he meant. If he meant what you think he meant, I will definitely say he is flat out wrong.

My goal is not to defend Andy Stanley individually. I just don't think we should necessarily assume the worst of anyone's statement, if there are plausible, multiple interpretations.

But again, if your interpretation of his words is correct, then I agree with your stance.

 

[StefanM]

One thing duly noted that has come to light with this topic is that many simply are not Sola Scriptura. No wonder our churches are in such a mess.

I see no evidence that anyone here holds to anything other than Sola Scriptura. I certainly don't.

As I just stated in another post, if Stanley meant to deny the Bible's authority, power, or relevance, then he is clearly in error.

If he made a phrasing error, that's another matter.

But Sola Scriptura leads us to Solus Christus and Soli Deo Gloria. The Bible is the vehicle, not the destination. The God who inspired the Bible is obviously more valuable than his perfect (but finite) work.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I already did. 1 Corinthians 15, with respect to the resurrection's centrality. If Christ is not raised, nothing matters, including the Bible. But he is raised, and the Bible is the inspired Word of God which testifies about Christ.

The difference is that I don't think that Stanley meant what you think he meant. If he meant what you think he meant, I will definitely say he is flat out wrong.

My goal is not to defend Andy Stanley individually. I just don't think we should necessarily assume the worst of anyone's statement, if there are plausible, multiple interpretations.

But again, if your interpretation of his words is correct, then I agree with your stance.

Regardless what he meant, words have weight. These words will reverbirate as they go through our churches like a tilted pinball. Pastors are to be held to higher standards. To say what he has on many occasions are causes for concern.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I don't trust your discernment enough to slander another pastor. Perhaps you would be better to keep your "patterns" to yourself and simply be faithful in what God has entrusted to you.

I will address this one by choice. The first sentence is meant to undermine a person's character and it does exactly that. This whole thing see has gone to emotional mode. And BTW, SG never slandered anyone.

 

[TCassidy]

Imagine Paul telling a church that he has known nothing among them but Christ and Him crucified. How dare Paul stand before the church and say that he has not known Scripture (the Old Testament), or that he hasn't known Moses and the Law, or Creation, or anything else except Christ and Him crucified.

If you apply the logic of your conclusions here to Paul then you would probably be considered a heretic. I think that you may need to revisit the topic.

Jon, I am going to have to disagree. We cannot compare Paul, and his knowledge of the Holy, with pastors today. We, today, are readers and students of the scripture. Paul, using the very special and very rare gift given by God was an inscripturator. He was writing scripture. The Holy Spirit had his "ear" to hear and record the very things we need today to be true to God's Self-revelation.

I won't jump on Stanley until he has had the opportunity to clarify what, exactly, he meant by his statements regarding the bible and pastors. But as of now it appears he is straying badly from "the faith once delivered to the saints." If, in fact, he is not a Pastor, but merely a CEO, he needs to resign his church and take a job in the secular world. Those people deserve a pastor. A pastor does more than just lead. He also teaches, feeds, nurtures, guides, counsels, comforts, and parents the flock which God has given into his pastoral watch-care. If he can't see that he needs to be gone. Now. Before he hurts a whole lot more people.

If he has been misunderstood he needs to speak up NOW and correct the misunderstanding.

 

[StefanM]

Regardless what he meant, words have weight. These words will reverbirate as they go through our churches like a tilted pinball. Pastors are to be held to higher standards. To say what he has on many occasions are causes for concern.

I don't think that many people will actually hear these words specifically.

I will grant you that he has to do a better job of keeping his words under control generally. (We probably all could get better on this one.)

I agree with you RE: higher standards. That's why I can say that I wish he had been clearer with his statement. That way, we could more effectively evaluate it and either clearly reject it or not.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Jon, I am going to have to disagree. We cannot compare Paul, and his knowledge of the Holy, with pastors today. We, today, are readers and students of the scripture. Paul, using the very special and very rare gift given by God was an inscripturator. He was writing scripture. The Holy Spirit had his "ear" to hear and record the very things we need today to be true to God's Self-revelation.

I won't jump on Stanley until he has had the opportunity to clarify what, exactly, he meant by his statements regarding the bible and pastors. But as of now it appears he is straying badly from "the faith once delivered to the saints." If, in fact, he is not a Pastor, but merely a CEO, he needs to resign his church and take a job in the secular world. Those people deserve a pastor. A pastor does more than just lead. He also teaches, feeds, nurtures, guides, counsels, comforts, and parents the flock which God has given into his pastoral watch-care. If he can't see that he needs to be gone. Now. Before he hurts a whole lot more people.

If he has been misunderstood he needs to speak up NOW and correct the misunderstanding.

There is a YUGE PILE of evidence against the man, imo. I have not gossiped, have not slandered the man. I merely used his OWN WORDS.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Jon, I am going to have to disagree. We cannot compare Paul, and his knowledge of the Holy, with pastors today. We, today, are readers and students of the scripture. Paul, using the very special and very rare gift given by God was an inscripturator. He was writing scripture. The Holy Spirit had his "ear" to hear and record the very things we need today to be true to God's Self-revelation.

I won't jump on Stanley until he has had the opportunity to clarify what, exactly, he meant by his statements regarding the bible and pastors. But as of now it appears he is straying badly from "the faith once delivered to the saints." If, in fact, he is not a Pastor, but merely a CEO, he needs to resign his church and take a job in the secular world. Those people deserve a pastor. A pastor does more than just lead. He also teaches, feeds, nurtures, guides, counsels, comforts, and parents the flock which God has given into his pastoral watch-care. If he can't see that he needs to be gone. Now. Before he hurts a whole lot more people.

If he has been misunderstood he needs to speak up NOW and correct the misunderstanding.

And Paul also used the bible he already had and expounded upon it as the Spirit moved him to write it.

 

[JonC]

Jon, I am going to have to disagree. We cannot compare Paul, and his knowledge of the Holy, with pastors today. We, today, are readers and students of the scripture. Paul, using the very special and very rare gift given by God was an inscripturator. He was writing scripture. The Holy Spirit had his "ear" to hear and record the very things we need today to be true to God's Self-revelation.

I won't jump on Stanley until he has had the opportunity to clarify what, exactly, he meant by his statements regarding the bible and pastors. But as of now it appears he is straying badly from "the faith once delivered to the saints." If, in fact, he is not a Pastor, but merely a CEO, he needs to resign his church and take a job in the secular world. Those people deserve a pastor. A pastor does more than just lead. He also teaches, feeds, nurtures, guides, counsels, comforts, and parents the flock which God has given into his pastoral watch-care. If he can't see that he needs to be gone. Now. Before he hurts a whole lot more people.

If he has been misunderstood he needs to speak up NOW and correct the misunderstanding.

I think of it this way - we had a pastor who came here from a northern state. He tells of giving all the mothers a white rose on mother's day as a sign of appreciation and love. He offended many, and some found it hard to forgive the insult.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I will address this one by choice. The first sentence is meant to undermine a person's character and it does exactly that. This whole thing see has gone to emotional mode. And BTW, SG never slandered anyone.

I reported it. But since he is one of the mods...

 

[SovereignGrace]

I think of it this way - we had a pastor who came here from a northern state. He tells of giving all the mothers a white rose on mother's day as a sign of appreciation and love. He offended many, and some found it hard to forgive the insult.

??? Please expound. Thanks in advance.