Correct application of limited atonement.

[Rob_BW]

TCASSIDY and others have done a wonderful job of explaining limited atonement. But I was doing some reading and came across something that made me question my understanding of limited atonement.

In short, is uttering the words "Christ died for your sins" during evangelism a denial of limited atonement?

Thanks in advance for the replies.

 

[JonC]

TCASSIDY and others have done a wonderful job of explaining limited atonement. But I was doing some reading and came across something that made me question my understanding of limited atonement.

In short, is uttering the words "Christ died for your sins" during evangelism a denial of limited atonement?

Thanks in advance for the replies.

No, I do not believe so (although I wouldn't put it that way).

Jesus did not die for the sins but the sinner. And in this way, Jesus died for every person and as the Savior of every person...no exceptions. Jesus died for the sin of mankind. He took human sin upon Himself. Through the cross a legitimate offer of salvation is extended to every man, woman and child that ever lived and will ever live.

But at the same time, Jesus died so that those who would believe would have everlasting life. Jesus died for the church, for the sheep, in a particular way. Jesus died not only so that all may believe, but also to secure the salvation of those who would believe (those whom are given by the Father).

So no matter who you talk to, you can legitimately say that God loved the world by giving His only Son that if they believed they would live; that Jesus died so that if only they would come, they would have everlasting life.

 

[TCassidy]

TCASSIDY and others have done a wonderful job of explaining limited atonement. But I was doing some reading and came across something that made me question my understanding of limited atonement.

In short, is uttering the words "Christ died for your sins" during evangelism a denial of limited atonement?

Thanks in advance for the replies.

1 Cointhians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

That is the way I quote it. Christ died for our sins. I believe that is a statement of the fact that the application of the infinite atonement is limited to believers (the elect). But I leave it up to the listener as to whether or not he applies it to himself.

 

[Iconoclast]

TCASSIDY and others have done a wonderful job of explaining limited atonement. But I was doing some reading and came across something that made me question my understanding of limited atonement.

In short, is uttering the words "Christ died for your sins" during evangelism a denial of limited atonement?

Thanks in advance for the replies.

Christ died to save sinners is accurate .
We cannot give assurance to anyone while they are still living in the practice of sins that they have been saved from the power of sin.

TCASSIDY and others have done a wonderful job of explaining limited atonement. But I was doing some reading and came across something that made me question my understanding of limited atonement.

In short, is uttering the words "Christ died for your sins" during evangelism a denial of limited atonement?

Thanks in advance for the replies.

TCASSIDY and others have done a wonderful job of explaining limited atonement. But I was doing some reading and came across something that made me question my understanding of limited atonement.

In short, is uttering the words "Christ died for your sins" during evangelism a denial of limited atonement?

Thanks in advance for the replies.

 

[Rob_BW]

Thanks guys. I was reading about Norman Shepherd, and wanted to check my understanding.

 

[Revmitchell]

Jesus did not die for the sins but the sinner.

Did you really intend to say it that way?

 

[JonC]

Did you really intend to say it that way?

Yes, but with your reply I can see that "for" can be taken a couple of ways. Thanks for pointing that out. I mean that Jesus died for the salvation of men....I just worded it poorly.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

didn't Christ die for the ones the Father gave him. If he died for ALL wouldnt ALL be saved?

 

[JonC]

didn't Christ die for the ones the Father gave him. If he died for ALL wouldnt ALL be saved?

Depends on the purpose. Christ is the savior of all, especially those who believe. He died that all could be saved (His death is sufficient for all and beckons all to repentance), but effects atonement for those who believe (only those who believe are saved).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Depends on the purpose. Christ is the savior of all, especially those who believe. He died that all could be saved (His death is sufficient for all and beckons all to repentance), but effects atonement for those who believe (only those who believe are saved).

But because He is God, He well knows that not all will come to him....further He only dies knowing full well that not all will come but will go to hell ....see the Lord does not provide salvation to all....therefore there are those bound for hell. So how does he die for all? Again if He did, all would naturally go to heaven. They don't, some go to hell.

 

[JonC]

But because He is God, He well knows that not all will come to him....further He only dies knowing full well that not all will come but will go to hell ....see the Lord does not provide salvation to all....therefore there are those bound for hell. So how does he die for all? Again if He did, all would naturally go to heaven. They don't, some go to hell.

It depends on the purpose of Christ’s death. Jesus died so that all might be saved (through His death the salvation of man is made possible, He is the propitiation for our sins – not only ours but for the sins of the world; He is the savior of all men, especially those who believe). Jesus died in obedience to the Father so that man might be saved. All the Father gives will come. Jesus died for His sheep (given by the Father), He lay down His life for the Church. While Jesus’ death made possible the salvation of man, He did not die so that all men would be saved. To the unbeliever, the Cross is a provision of salvation. To the saved, the Cross effects salvation.

Here's an illustration (‘cause we love illustrations):

God sent venomous serpents among the Israelites, and when they were bit they died. He commanded Moses to make a bronze serpent and set it on a pole. When a man was bitten, he could look at the bronze serpent and live. The serpent was lifted up so that any who looked would live. But only those who looked upon it lived. And as Moses lifted up the serpent, even so was Jesus Christ lifted up that whoever believes would live.

Atonement is limited to the "whosoever believes" (e.g.,only those who looked upon the serpent lived), but Christ's death was also for the sins of all mankind (e.g., the bronze serpent was lifted up so that everyone who was bitten could look upon it). Christ died to so that all can be saved if they believe, but none of us believe (before I was saved I was lost). God works in the hearts of men (the elect) in such a way as to reveal the Truth of the gospel (they believe).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It depends on the purpose of Christ’s death. Jesus died so that all might be saved (through His death the salvation of man is made possible, He is the propitiation for our sins – not only ours but for the sins of the world; He is the savior of all men, especially those who believe). Jesus died in obedience to the Father so that man might be saved. All the Father gives will come. Jesus died for His sheep (given by the Father), He lay down His life for the Church. While Jesus’ death made possible the salvation of man, He did not die so that all men would be saved. To the unbeliever, the Cross is a provision of salvation. To the saved, the Cross effects salvation.

Here's an illustration (‘cause we love illustrations):

God sent venomous serpents among the Israelites, and when they were bit they died. He commanded Moses to make a bronze serpent and set it on a pole. When a man was bitten, he could look at the bronze serpent and live. The serpent was lifted up so that any who looked would live. But only those who looked upon it lived. And as Moses lifted up the serpent, even so was Jesus Christ lifted up that whoever believes would live.

Atonement is limited to the "whosoever believes" (e.g.,only those who looked upon the serpent lived), but Christ's death was also for the sins of all mankind (e.g., the bronze serpent was lifted up so that everyone who was bitten could look upon it). Christ died to so that all can be saved if they believe, but none of us believe (before I was saved I was lost). God works in the hearts of men (the elect) in such a way as to reveal the Truth of the gospel (they believe).

Fine...but he does not work in the hearts of those he passes by...they are reprobate, not the ones chosen from before the foundations of the world. yes the blood of Christ is effective to all efficient to only those the Father chooses to save.

 

[JonC]

Fine...but he does not work in the hearts of those he passes by...they are reprobate, not the ones chosen from before the foundations of the world. yes the blood of Christ is effective to all efficient to only those the Father chooses to save.

I seem to have a minority view, but I would say that they are reprobate not only by default but also that in their disbelief (their freely chosen rejection of God) divine justice illuminates the pure holiness of God in accord with Gods eternal plan.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I seem to have a minority view, but I would say that they are reprobate not only by default but also that in their disbelief (their freely chosen rejection of God) divine justice illuminates the pure holiness of God in accord with Gods eternal plan.

OK..so when does this freely chosen rejection of Christ occur?

 

[JonShaff]

The question is, in my opinion, did God put all sin on Christ or just the sins of believers?