What is the Prevalent "Baptist" View on Evangelical Moderates?

[Steven Yeadon]

My question is the title of the thread. By evangelical moderate I mean people who are typically evangelicals found in Mainline Denominations.

They believe Jesus Christ died for their sins and confess Him as Lord and Savior. They accept historical criticism as accurate. They believe science trumps the bible. They believe that the Words of God in the bible are inspired by God but not literally true. They tend to embrace American pop culture. They tend to follow American artists who claim to be Christian and little else like John Mayer. They can be found trying to reinterpret parts of American culture to fit Christian contexts and norms. They embrace Christian Tradition if high church. They tend to value reason and knowledge highly. They tend to believe in the social gospel, and feel they should contribute to charitable causes in some way as a way to serve God. Lastly, they are staunchly supportive of missions and evangelism, hence why we can call them evangelicals. All of that said, they still trust the bible as the source of how to live their lives and try to adjust their lives to, or at least judge their lives by, biblical norms of morality.

Also, making that list of characteristics was kind of fun and informative. Does anyone else know any aspects of moderate evangelicals they can offer that I missed?

 

[Jerome]

Southern Baptist controversialist Russell Moore put it this way:

"Evangelical doesn't mean anything anymore."

"Evangelical doesn't describe a doctrinal commitment, instead it describes a set of institutions, a set of parachurch ministries, that are moving more and more and more to the left."

http://digital.library.sbts.edu/handle/10392/4195

[He starts up on Evangelicals at 16:00, the above statements are made at about 19:25]

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Thank you so much Jerome. It is an excellent audio and I bookmarked the page. It has taught me an awful lot about the current situation and taught me a few things beyond.

-EDIT-

I now wonder what the battle between moderates and conservatives among the baptists is like, but then again I can see that in my own church. I cannot believe that the moderates held leadership of the SBC in the 70s and 80s. I hadn't remembered that.

 

[Revmitchell]

Moderate=liberal light. Still a liberal.

 

[Yeshua1]

My question is the title of the thread. By evangelical moderate I mean people who are typically evangelicals found in Mainline Denominations.

They believe Jesus Christ died for their sins and confess Him as Lord and Savior. They accept historical criticism as accurate. They believe science trumps the bible. They believe that the Words of God in the bible are inspired by God but not literally true. They tend to embrace American pop culture. They tend to follow American artists who claim to be Christian and little else like John Mayer. They can be found trying to reinterpret parts of American culture to fit Christian contexts and norms. They embrace Christian Tradition if high church. They tend to value reason and knowledge highly. They tend to believe in the social gospel, and feel they should contribute to charitable causes in some way as a way to serve God. Lastly, they are staunchly supportive of missions and evangelism, hence why we can call them evangelicals. All of that said, they still trust the bible as the source of how to live their lives and try to adjust their lives to, or at least judge their lives by, biblical norms of morality.

Also, making that list of characteristics was kind of fun and informative. Does anyone else know any aspects of moderate evangelicals they can offer that I missed?

Strange that they can still themselves as being holding to the biblical jesus and Gospel when they reject that the Bible is truthful?

 

[Yeshua1]

Moderate=liberal light. Still a liberal.

In both politics and religion!

 

[Yeshua1]

Thank you so much Jerome. It is an excellent audio and I bookmarked the page. It has taught me an awful lot about the current situation and taught me a few things beyond.

-EDIT-

I now wonder what the battle between moderates and conservatives among the baptists is like, but then again I can see that in my own church. I cannot believe that the moderates held leadership of the SBC in the 70s and 80s. I hadn't remembered that.

Moderates denied the truth of the Bible, thast it os fully inerrant/infallible, and there is right now a battle brewing between more reformed baptists and free will ones!

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Moderate=liberal light. Still a liberal.

Probably the answer I bet I was looking for before Jerome spoke.

In both politics and religion!

This is too true for many baptists, but that is sad for me. I think it shouldn't be that way politically, since 21st century politics should not be a reason to look down on others or divide the Body while at church. I am an independent who votes for the best candidate after research and reflection, but I will always veto a non social conservative. This means I ally with the Republicans a lot lately, because the Democrats just don't want the votes of independent social conservatives anymore (despite the fact there are a lot of us). The main issue between me and your average conservative today is mainly that we just trust different economists and their economic forecasts.

That said, I think it is a very bad idea to divide the Body over the concern of conservative vs independent. Politically liberal baptists on the other hand need correction. Anyone who will vaunt John Lennon must realize they have lost sight of the bible.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Moderates denied the truth of the Bible, thast it os fully inerrant/infallible, and there is right now a battle brewing between more reformed baptists and free will ones!

Yeshua do you know the current state of the of the war between moderates and conservatives among baptists, especially southern baptists? I would love to be informed.

Strange that they can still themselves as being holding to the biblical jesus and Gospel when they reject that the Bible is truthful?

That is the thing that gets me the most: How can Pentecostal Christians and Roman Catholic Christians and Eastern Orthodox Christians and Moderate Christians all accept Jesus as Lord and Savior? For me, I doubt the sincerity of their belief and goodness of their fruit in some way as the scripture that always comes to mind is Matthew 7:21-23. Something that horrifies me beyond words.

 

[rsr]

Yes, it would truly horrible if some folks of other faith traditions actually were real Christians and we were just posers because we checked the correct boxes and didn't actually live the way Christ told us to.

As to the controversy in the Southern Baptist Convention: The "conservatives" won but found that the victory wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Denominationalism is crumbling within the convention — many, many younger pastors want nothing to do with the politicization that has characterized the convention — so they find themselves presiding over a shell of what it used to be.

 

[rsr]

Moderate=liberal light. Still a liberal.

More bilge, I see. A moderate is just as much a conservative light, still a conservative, as the other way around.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Yes, it would truly horrible if some folks of other faith traditions actually were real Christians and we were just posers because we checked the correct boxes and didn't actually live the way Christ told us to.

Wow! I didn't understand this until a few read throughs. I get it. Those who believe the right things because they stake it all on His Word and match it by doing the right things are different. They show a faith that bears good fruit worthy of a reward. People who do not believe the right things and do not do the right things can only blame themselves on the Day of Judgment. So very harsh, but it seems to be of the Master I have to conclude.

 

[Yeshua1]

Probably the answer I bet I was looking for before Jerome spoke.



This is too true for many baptists, but that is sad for me. I think it shouldn't be that way politically, since 21st century politics should not be a reason to look down on others or divide the Body while at church. I am an independent who votes for the best candidate after research and reflection, but I will always veto a non social conservative. This means I ally with the Republicans a lot lately, because the Democrats just don't want the votes of independent social conservatives anymore (despite the fact there are a lot of us). The main issue between me and your average conservative today is mainly that we just trust different economists and their economic forecasts.

That said, I think it is a very bad idea to divide the Body over the concern of conservative vs independent. Politically liberal baptists on the other hand need correction. Anyone who will vaunt John Lennon must realize they have lost sight of the bible.

Main problem though is that current Democratic party pretty much in bed with abortion, gay rights. false religion/no religion, and they are theones that demonize any against them!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yeshua do you know the current state of the of the war between moderates and conservatives among baptists, especially southern baptists? I would love to be informed.



That is the thing that gets me the most: How can Pentecostal Christians and Roman Catholic Christians and Eastern Orthodox Christians and Moderate Christians all accept Jesus as Lord and Savior? For me, I doubt the sincerity of their belief and goodness of their fruit in some way as the scripture that always comes to mind is Matthew 7:21-23. Something that horrifies me beyond words.

The lord can ans does still save out from those groups His own people, but it is despite their bad theology! Once saved though, time to move on, as you can freely attest to!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, it would truly horrible if some folks of other faith traditions actually were real Christians and we were just posers because we checked the correct boxes and didn't actually live the way Christ told us to.

As to the controversy in the Southern Baptist Convention: The "conservatives" won but found that the victory wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Denominationalism is crumbling within the convention — many, many younger pastors want nothing to do with the politicization that has characterized the convention — so they find themselves presiding over a shell of what it used to be.

Right now there seems to be an upsurge in SBC trying to get back to its Calvinistic roots though, which to me is a good thing!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yeshua do you know the current state of the of the war between moderates and conservatives among baptists, especially southern baptists? I would love to be informed.



That is the thing that gets me the most: How can Pentecostal Christians and Roman Catholic Christians and Eastern Orthodox Christians and Moderate Christians all accept Jesus as Lord and Savior? For me, I doubt the sincerity of their belief and goodness of their fruit in some way as the scripture that always comes to mind is Matthew 7:21-23. Something that horrifies me beyond words.

The conservative took back their seminaries and publish company to reflect a view on Bible being infallible and fully trustworthy, and now, there is a swing towards trying to become more calnistic in the area of salvation itself!

 

[Revmitchell]

More bilge, I see. A moderate is just as much a conservative light, still a conservative, as the other way around.

umm, no. A little leaven leaven's the whole lump.

 

[JonC]

In a way, the word "evangelical" has almost joined the word "fundamentalist". Just as the latter now evokes images of opposition (churches defined by what they oppose rather than by the One in whom they stand), the word "evangelical" is becoming a word that conjures images inclusion (an attitude rather than a firm doctrine).

 

[Crabtownboy]

Wow! I didn't understand this until a few read throughs. I get it. Those who believe the right things because they stake it all on His Word and match it by doing the right things are different. They show a faith that bears good fruit worthy of a reward. People who do not believe the right things and do not do the right things can only blame themselves on the Day of Judgment. So very harsh, but it seems to be of the Master I have to conclude.

Two questions:
1. What about those who, in your view, believe the right things, but do nothing and yield no fruits.

2. What about those who, in your view, do not believe the right things, but do much and produce good fruit?

 

[Van]

Finding fault with others seems to be the board pastime. We are to compare ourselves to Christ and not those we think inferior.

Why do we find fault with growing churches? Why they are ear-tickling compromisers.

Why do we find fault with dying churches? Why they have left their first love.

Why do consider ourselves and discuss our shortcomings? Where do we fail to walk the talk..