Lawsuit Against President Trump

[Squire Robertsson]

First answer this:

My question is would you apply the same criteria to George Washington because he sold goods and crops produced at Mount Vernon to a non-American enterprise?

then I'll answer this:

Hmmm, so the Trump apologists do not believe in the Constitution's Foreign Emoluments Clause.

This is the scenario I'm positing:

The crops are in at Mount Vernon. A factor for a foreign government buys some of it. Would you say this is a violation of the Emoluments Clause?​

 

[Happy]

Hmmm, so the Trump apologists do not believe in the Constitution's Foreign Emoluments Clause.

“No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.”

Does your comment have a specific point?

 

[Happy]

Here is your statement, as written:

Last minute, before the close of the business day, before recess, during recess, lawsuits..well known Tactics of political warfare.

You are talking specifically about lawsuits filed at the close of business day, and lawsuits filed before or during recess. (My guess is Congressional recess.) The lawsuit in the OP was neither of those things, and even if it were, lawsuits are not sneak attacks, they take weeks, months to play out so it doesn't matter when it was filed--what time of day or what Congress was doing or not doing.

I don't know why this has to be explained to you.

LOL ~ I do know why you think you are explaining MY comment!

My comment gave a non inclusive list of TACTICS, clearly prefaced as EXAMPLES.

 

[Crabtownboy]

First answer this:

then I'll answer this:

This is the scenario I'm positing:

The crops are in at Mount Vernon. A factor for a foreign government buys some of it. Would you say this is a violation of the Emoluments Clause?​

Is there a difference between a business deal and a gift from a foreign government? Yes, of course there is.

It has been a very long-standing policy that officials, including the president, give to the government anything given to them by a foreign government or person. I see that Trump has said he will give any profits made through government payments to the government. This is a good idea. However, with his fast and loose promises, like releasing his income taxes and releasing tapes, I have serious doubts about his truthfulness on this. I also wonder who determines what the profits are .... his accounting firm or the governments?

Time will tell how this plays out.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Does your comment have a specific point?

Yes, guess it flew by your ears. Read the Constitution and see what you think. Thanks.

 

[Happy]

Yes, guess it flew by your ears. Read the Constitution and see what you think. Thanks.

I am very familiar with the US Constitution.
You quote Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8.....
and your own words say nothing about Trump being in violation of Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8

What your own words contend is it is your OPINION, that Trump will violate Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8.

My contention is you want to discuss your OPINION.
My contention is your OPINION is void of facts that reveals any violation of Trump, in application to Article 1, Sec 9, Cl 8....
and thus a waste of time and space to give any consideration to participate in your unmerited opinionated fantasy.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I am very familiar with the US Constitution.
You quote Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8.....
and your own words say nothing about Trump being in violation of Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8

What your own words contend is it is your OPINION, that Trump will violate Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8.

My contention is you want to discuss your OPINION.
My contention is your OPINION is void of facts that reveals any violation of Trump, in application to Article 1, Sec 9, Cl 8....
and thus a waste of time and space to give any consideration to participate in your unmerited opinionated fantasy.

You opinions. Nothing of substance.

You are trying to ignore the Constitution.


This cramped interpretation is designed to ensure that “private commercial transactions” fall outside the clause’s scope. To bolster that proposition, the brief embarked upon a comically tone-deaf tour of presidential profiteering through the ages. We learned that, during their presidencies, George Washington owned a gristmill; Thomas Jefferson, a nail factory; James Madison and James Monroe, tobacco plantations. According to the DOJ, these enterprises are constitutionally analogous to Trump’s empire which, to give just one of many examples, allows the president to receive millions of dollars from a state-controlled Chinese bank.

Trump Is Now Facing Three Emoluments Lawsuits. Will Any of Them Succeed?

 

[Happy]

You opinions. Nothing of substance.
You are trying to ignore the Constitution.

No. That is false. You quoted a portion of the Constitution and I properly IDENTIFIED the portion you neglected to IDENTIFY.

You have further stated;

It has been a very long-standing policy that officials, including the president, give to the government

anything given to them by a foreign government or person.

That is false.

The law and regulation created subsequent to Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8, does not say, anything given to a US political figure, BY a foreign government (or person representing a foreign government) MUST be given to the government.

Gifts given from foreign dignitaries are routinely given Presidents "personally" and given the US and accepted by a President on behalf of the US.

Dependent upon what the gift is, and it's value, determines HOW the gift may be "disposed" of....ie Kept personally, Archived in the National Archives, Kept in a Governmental building for use or display, Archived and kept in a Presidential Library, donated to another source outside of the US government, or purchased at current value by the recipient.

This cramped interpretation is designed to ensure that “private commercial transactions” fall outside the clause’s scope. To bolster that proposition, the brief embarked upon a comically tone-deaf tour of presidential profiteering through the ages. We learned that, during their presidencies, George Washington owned a gristmill; Thomas Jefferson, a nail factory; James Madison and James Monroe, tobacco plantations. According to the DOJ, these enterprises are constitutionally analogous to Trump’s empire which, to give just one of many examples, allows the president to receive millions of dollars from a state-controlled Chinese bank.

It is clear you are following after the complaints brought to light by others....
which first offered up their questioning of Mr. Trump's relationship with his numerous business adventures.

Mr. Trump severed his control over his numerous business adventures, and his documentation was accepted by the US Government, BEFORE he was sworn in as President.

So next, others of the same group, then turned their attention to questioning of "President Trump's" accepting of gifts. And apparently is also "your" questioning and implied support for "groups" bringing law suites against Trump, regarding "their claims", that is the basis for this OP.

Who cares, that some group has decided to sue Trump? I don't.

Who cares, you are on board spouting a Constitutional clause? I don't.

Where are the IMPORTANT MISSING FACTS that would give any prudent person cause to be interested in this OP?

What "gifts" ? LOL

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Indeed. What gifts ?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

CTB, what is posited was a business deal. To flesh it out for the sake of argument:

The factor is buying some of Mount Vernon's whiskey for of the officer's mess of the HMS Formidable.
​

Is there a difference between a business deal and a gift from a foreign government? Yes, of course there is.

 

[Crabtownboy]

CTB, what is posited was a business deal. To flesh it out for the sake of argument:

The factor is buying some of Mount Vernon's whiskey for of the officer's mess of the HMS Formidable.
​

I don't know, did Washington sell to a foreign government?

Did a foreign government's bank lend Washington hundreds of thousands of dollars ... i.e. that would be millions now?

Was the US considered important enough when Washington was president to try to influence his decisions with loans?

Did Washington have officials in his administration that secretly met with foreign government officials in any capacity other than negotiating a treaty?

This is a real apple and oranges tack you are taking, IMHO.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I don't know. I was positing a scenario as much akin to Mr. Trump's as possible. Selling whiskey to a Royal Navy ship of the line's officers' mess sounds like selling to a foreign government to me. I choose Washington (though I could have just as easily picked Jefferson) because he is one of the few presidents who was a business owner.

I don't know, did Washington sell to a foreign government?