Merry Christmas: Senate Passes Tax Cut Bill 51-49

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I wouldn't call being there for 30 years a bail-out.I wanted to live on both coasts and then return to the South and I did that. It's a free country or used to be anyway. If you're against excellent public education you have a lot of supporters here. You are getting screwed by the Republican tax bill and I am not at least until they take away Social Security and medicare. Enjoy.

The end result is that I will become very political but I want to check with my accountant first to verify how hard I will be hit. I know my assemblyman, we went to school together, I know my congressman, my Freeholder Etc all but one is a Republican. I have some influence & that now will or will not help them in the next re election cycle. I would not like to see anyone hurt by this Trump Tax thing but this will definitely hurt the Republicans in Hunterdon, Warren & Sussex counties.....we might go so far as to vote in independent representatives but believe me we are all in committee and there will be blood in the street if we get screwed.

 

[FollowTheWay]

The end result is that I will become very political but I want to check with my accountant first to verify how hard I will be hit. I know my assemblyman, we went to school together, I know my congressman, my Freeholder Etc all but one is a Republican. I have some influence & that now will or will not help them in the next re election cycle. I would not like to see anyone hurt by this Trump Tax thing but this will definitely hurt the Republicans in Hunterdon, Warren & Sussex counties.....we might go so far as to vote in independent representatives but believe me we are all in committee and there will be blood in the street if we get screwed.

I think a lot of people supported this tax bill because of the way Trump and the GOP represented it, as a middle class tax cut. In reality it is the opposite. The worst thing about it was the way it was put together on the fly at 2 am and nobody was given a final version of the bill before it was voted on. Polls show that the majority of people in the U.S. are opposed to it and that number will go up when people find out what's actually in it.

 

[InTheLight]

I think a lot of people supported this tax bill because of the way Trump and the GOP represented it, as a middle class tax cut. In reality it is the opposite. The worst thing about it was the way it was put together on the fly at 2 am and nobody was given a final version of the bill before it was voted on. Polls show that the majority of people in the U.S. are opposed to it and that number will go up when people find out what's actually in it.

Standard deduction increased by almost 100%. ($24,400, up from $12,700 for married couples; $12,200, up from $6,350 for single people.)
Child tax credit of $2,000.

Both of these measures ensures that 93% of Americans will get a tax cut.

Here is a list of some common occupations and how much of a tax cut each will receive. Notice who get the highest percent cut in their taxes. That's right, the lower wage earners.:
Here's what Trump's tax plan means for people at every income level from $20,000 to $269,000 a year

 

[FollowTheWay]

Standard deduction increased by almost 100%. ($24,400, up from $12,700 for married couples; $12,200, up from $6,350 for single people.)
Child tax credit of $2,000.

Both of these measures ensures that 93% of Americans will get a tax cut.

Here is a list of some common occupations and how much of a tax cut each will receive. Notice who get the highest percent cut in their taxes. That's right, the lower wage earners.:
Here's what Trump's tax plan means for people at every income level from $20,000 to $269,000 a year

First of all I seriously doubt that 93% of American taxpayers take the standard deduction. Secondly, while the standard deduction was doubled the personal exemption was taken away. Under today's tax laws a married couple gets a $12,000 standard deduction and a $16,000 personal exemption for a total deduction of $28,000. Under the GOP tax plan they will get a standard deduction of $24,000, period. Their deduction is reduced by $4,000 under the new law. Pretty slick isn't it. Everybody talks about doubling the standard deduction but very few p[people seem to be aware that the personal exemption is being taken away.

 

[InTheLight]

First of all I seriously doubt that 93% of American taxpayers take the standard deduction. Secondly, while the standard deduction was doubled the personal exemption was taken away. Under today's tax laws a married couple gets a $12,000 standard deduction and a $16,000 personal exemption for a total deduction of $28,000. Under the GOP tax plan they will get a standard deduction of $24,000, period. Their deduction is reduced by $4,000 under the new law. Pretty slick isn't it. Everybody talks about doubling the standard deduction but very few p[people seem to be aware that the personal exemption is being taken away.

Where do you get this stuff from? Seriously.

Under current tax plans a married couple has a $4.050 personal exemption per person. That is a personal exemption of $8,100 for both of them. Add in their standard deduction of $12,700 and they have shielded their first $20,800 from taxation. Now here comes the GOP tax plan that almost doubles the standard deduction to $24,000 for that couple but removes the personal exemptions. That means right off the bat the married couple has shielded $3,200 more dollars from taxation than under the old plan.

So another fail for you.

 

[FollowTheWay]

Where do you get this stuff from? Seriously.

Under current tax plans a married couple has a $4.050 personal exemption per person. That is a personal exemption of $8,100 for both of them. Add in their standard deduction of $12,700 and they have shielded their first $20,800 from taxation. Now here comes the GOP tax plan that almost doubles the standard deduction to $24,000 for that couple but removes the personal exemptions. That means right off the bat the married couple has shielded $3,200 more dollars from taxation than under the old plan.

So another fail for you.

Eliminate personal exemptions:
Today you're allowed to claim a $4,050 personal exemption for yourself, your spouse and each of your dependents. Both the Senate and House bills eliminate that option.

What's in the Senate Republicans' tax bill

 

[InTheLight]

Eliminate personal exemptions:
Today you're allowed to claim a $4,050 personal exemption for yourself, your spouse and each of your dependents. Both the Senate and House bills eliminate that option.

What's in the Senate Republicans' tax bill

Sigh. Yes, I know the personal exemption is going away. That would be a loss of $8,100 of income shielded from taxes. However, with the increase in the standard deduction to $24,000 the net gain in shielded income would be $3,200.

Current Plan
$12,700 std. deduction + $8,100 personal exemptions = $20,800.

New GOP Plan
New std. deduction = $24,000. A $3,200 gain in income shielded from taxes.


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[FollowTheWay]

Sigh. Yes, I know the personal exemption is going away. That would be a loss of $8,100 of income shielded from taxes. However, with the increase in the standard deduction to $24,000 the net gain in shielded income would be $3,200.

Current Plan
$12,700 std. deduction + $8,100 personal exemptions = $20,800.

New GOP Plan
New std. deduction = $24,000. A $3,200 gain in income shielded from taxes.


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

The new GOP plan penalizes families with any children (small for one child and increases with more than one child).

 

[InTheLight]

The new GOP plan penalizes families with any children (small for one child and increases with more than one child).

If by penalize you mean it gives them a new $1,600 tax credit for each child, then yes.

I don't consider that a penalty though.

 

[FollowTheWay]

If by penalize you mean it gives them a new $1,600 tax credit for each child, then yes.

I don't consider that a penalty though.

Today you're allowed to claim a $4,050 personal exemption for yourself, your spouse and each of your dependents. Both the Senate and House bills eliminate that option.

For a family of 4, that means a deduction of $12,700 + 4 ($4,050) = $28,900. The new law would provide a total deduction of $24,000. That's a LOSS of $4,900. I don't see where you get this hypothetical gain of $1,600/child.

 

[InTheLight]

Today you're allowed to claim a $4,050 personal exemption for yourself, your spouse and each of your dependents. Both the Senate and House bills eliminate that option.

For a family of 4, that means a deduction of $12,700 + 4 ($4,050) = $28,900. The new law would provide a total deduction of $24,000. That's a LOSS of $4,900. I don't see where you get this hypothetical gain of $1,600/child.

If would be helpful if you would read one of the hundreds of articles about the tax bill wherein you would learn about the child tax credit. The GOP plans to have a $1,600 child tax credit. Marco Rubio and Mike Lee are holding out for a $2,000 child tax credit.

Here's the Washington Post:
But they are also proposing to eliminate the $4,050-per-household-member personal exemption, which could mean large families might not see a net benefit. Currently a married couple with two children who files jointly and takes the $12,700 standard deduction would not pay tax on their first $28,900 of income. That family, under the GOP plan, would be eligible only for the higher $24,000 standard deduction. But, as long as its total income is under $230,000, it would also be eligible for a larger $1,600 per child tax credit and a $300 credit for each taxpayer and non-child dependent that Republicans have proposed, which is subtracted from the family's overall tax liability.
Analysis | All your major questions about the House GOP tax plan, answered

 

[FollowTheWay]

If would be helpful if you would read one of the hundreds of articles about the tax bill wherein you would learn about the child tax credit. The GOP plans to have a $1,600 child tax credit. Marco Rubio and Mike Lee are holding out for a $2,000 child tax credit.

Here's the Washington Post:
But they are also proposing to eliminate the $4,050-per-household-member personal exemption, which could mean large families might not see a net benefit. Currently a married couple with two children who files jointly and takes the $12,700 standard deduction would not pay tax on their first $28,900 of income. That family, under the GOP plan, would be eligible only for the higher $24,000 standard deduction. But, as long as its total income is under $230,000, it would also be eligible for a larger $1,600 per child tax credit and a $300 credit for each taxpayer and non-child dependent that Republicans have proposed, which is subtracted from the family's overall tax liability.
Analysis | All your major questions about the House GOP tax plan, answered

This bill exists only in the memories of the Republicans who are throwing it together at the last minute to pass something, anything on tax reform. Show me a copy of the latest bill. The Senate voted on a bill that none of the Democrats had ever seen. it had handwritten changes.

 

[InTheLight]

This bill exists only in the memories of the Republicans who are throwing it together at the last minute to pass something, anything on tax reform. Show me a copy of the latest bill. The Senate voted on a bill that none of the Democrats had ever seen. it had handwritten changes.

<Sigh>

Deny.
Deny.
Deny.

In this iteration, Dec 8th, the Senate version is $2,000, not $1,600:

-----
SEC. 11022. Increase in and modification of child tax credit.

Section 24 is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:


“(h) Special rules for taxable years 2018 through 2025.—

“(1) IN GENERAL.—In the case of a taxable year beginning after December 31, 2017, and before January 1, 2026, this section shall be applied as provided in paragraphs (2), (3), (5), (6), (7), and (8). In the case of taxable year beginning after December 31, 2017 and before January 1, 2025, this section shall be applied as provided in paragraph (4).

“(2) CREDIT AMOUNT.—Subsection (a) shall be applied by substituting ‘$2,000’ for ‘$1,000’.

“(3) LIMITATION.—In lieu of the amount determined under subsection (b)(2), the threshold amount shall be $500,000.

“(4) DEFINITION OF QUALIFYING CHILD.—Paragraph (1) of subsection (c) shall be applied by substituting ‘18’ for ‘17’.

“(5) PARTIAL CREDIT ALLOWED FOR CERTAIN OTHER DEPENDENTS.—

“(A) IN GENERAL.—The credit determined under subsection (a) (after the application of paragraph (2)) shall be increased by $500 for each dependent of the taxpayer (as defined in section 152) other than a qualifying child described in subsection (c) (after the application of paragraph (4)).

“(B) EXCEPTION FOR CERTAIN NONCITIZENS.—Subparagraph (A) shall not apply with respect to any individual who would not be a dependent if subparagraph (A) of section 152(b)(3) were applied without regard to all that follows ‘resident of the United States’.

Text - H.R.1 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Tax Cuts and Jobs Act


Here is the House version, where the child tax credit is $1,600:
----
SEC. 1101. Enhancement of child tax credit and new family tax credit. Section 24(a) is amended to read as follows:


“(a) Allowance of credit.—There shall be allowed as a credit against the tax imposed by this chapter for the taxable year an amount equal to the sum of—

“(1) with respect to each qualifying child of the taxpayer, $1,600, and

“(2) for taxable years beginning before January 1, 2023, with respect to the taxpayer (each spouse in the case of a joint return) and each dependent of the taxpayer to whom paragraph (1) does not apply, $300.”.

Text - H.R.1 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Tax Cuts and Jobs Act

 

[FollowTheWay]

Republican Tax Bill Faces New Uncertainty Ahead of Expected Vote

NYT
Republican Tax Bill Faces New Uncertainty Ahead of Expected Vote
By ALAN RAPPEPORT and THOMAS KAPLAN DEC. 14, 2017

Republicans, who reached agreement Wednesday on a merged version of the House and Senate tax plans, expect to unveil the final bill on Friday and vote on the legislation early next week so that it can be sent to President Trump before Christmas.

But those plans were thrown into some disarray on Thursday when Mr. Rubio said that he would vote no on the bill unless it included a greater expansion of the child tax credit, which he and another Republican senator, Mike Lee of Utah, have been pushing for to benefit lower-income individuals.

 

[FollowTheWay]

<Sigh>

Deny.
Deny.
Deny.

Show me the final version.

 

[InTheLight]

Show me the final version.

Umm...unless you don't follow the news, the final version is in conference committee AT THIS VERY SECOND so there is no "final version" as yet. But there will be a child tax credit in the bill. Turn on C-SPAN, for heaven's sake!

 

[FollowTheWay]

Umm...unless you don't follow the news, the final version is in conference committee AT THIS VERY SECOND so there is no "final version" as yet. But there will be a child tax credit in the bill. Turn on C-SPAN, for heaven's sake!

How do you know it will be there? Why aren't the Republicans holding bi-partisan sessions to review the bill? Reagan's tax bill was introduced by Republican Gephart and democrat Bill Bradley. There were 90 open reviews with both parties in attendance. There have been no bi-partisan reviews of this bill. We have to watch CSPAN at 11 pm to get some inkling of whats in the bill. This is an absolute failure of Democracy in America. Its become a sham.

 

[InTheLight]

How do you know it will be there?

It's in both the House and the Senate bill. It will be in the final bill.

We have to watch CSPAN at 11 pm to get some inkling of whats in the bill.

The section I copied from the House bill and pasted here have been on the internet for weeks. The Senate version was just passed last week and has been on the internet since then. And yes, you have to watch C SPAN if you want to watch the ACTUAL NEGOTIATIONS in real time. What are you expecting when the bill is in conference committee? You do know the function of the conference commi...never mind.

This is an absolute failure of Democracy in America. Its become a sham.

Democrats said upfront they would not vote for the tax bill so they weren't asked to participate.

Surely you remember Obamacare--"We need to pass the bill to see what's in the bill."

 

[Salty]

Many people complain that the bill only benefits the rich.

But on the other hand - the bill discriminates against single people -
by receiving deductions for children - then single people in essence are paying extra

Hmmmmm

 

[thatbrian]

Until ALL citizens of the US are paying the same percentage of tax, the system is unjust.