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"Baptist"

Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by Steve Allen, Aug 20, 2018.

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  1. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    We would expect the lost to be in church as we would a customer in a store.
     
    #161 loDebar, Aug 23, 2018
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Yea...non-denominational:Tongue
     
    #162 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 23, 2018
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    When they are choosing to keep on living on known sin that would involve things such as adultery, pornography, drunkeness, drug abusing, gossiping, basically the known deadly sins, not things that invove just preferences and convictions!
     
    #163 Yeshua1, Aug 23, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I have no problem with anyone who prefers the Kjv for use, just do not see it being the only one can use!
     
    #164 Yeshua1, Aug 23, 2018
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    LOL...They do that too. I am convinced that how you do one thing is how you do everything.
     
    #165 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 23, 2018
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Do what also?
     
    #166 Yeshua1, Aug 23, 2018
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    adultery, pornography, drunkeness, drug abusing, gossiping, basically the known deadly sins. You think that just because they "TELL YOU" they are born again that sinful activity just goes away? If so, are you interested in some swamp land in south jersey?:Sneaky
     
    #167 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 23, 2018
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    The biggest drug pusher in 3 counties in NJ (uses high school kids as dealers in the schools) is a long standing member of a Reformed Baptist church out here..... tells you he is a born again.:Laugh
     
    #168 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 23, 2018
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Can I please make what I consider an important observation in scripture (Matthew 9:10-11)

    The Pharisees to the Disciples, " Why does your master eat with tax collectors & sinners?"

    Jesus Response, Matthew 9:12 "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.

    The Church, as Jesus seems to be defining it, is the gathering of accepted brokenness....it is NOT the gathering of the saved (Matthew 9:13) "And indeed I came not to call the upright, but sinners."
     
    #169 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 23, 2018
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  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I am just stating that per the scriptures, the unrepenent Christians needs to be addressed in order to be made more accountible now to God, church, and themselves!
     
    #170 Yeshua1, Aug 23, 2018
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    They were lost, but once saved and found, jesus was expecting them to be acting as one of His ought to be now!
     
    #171 Yeshua1, Aug 23, 2018
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Go back to the full quote...#169 before you answer me. From what I get out of scripture, I don't see the church as ever being a "Members Only" Club but somewhere along the lines it became a gathering of the saved instead of what Jesus makes it in his open table of fellowship. The fact is that Jesus' table is a gathering of the unsaved!
     
    #172 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 23, 2018
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  13. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    The church is a gathering of the unsaved?
     
    #173 JonShaff, Aug 23, 2018
  14. Steve Allen

    Steve Allen Member

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    @Earth Wind and Fire

    I think the confusion here arises from the fact that for the most part modern services are fairly non-exclusive. Anyone can come and go as they please, and it's considered extremely rude to ask anyone to leave unless they are causing some disruption.

    Traditionally, both in the early days and up until very recently pretty much anyone (even the heretics) could show up at first and hear the Word, but there would come a point in the proceedings where the preaching and teaching of the Word was over. Then all who were not "of the Faithful" would be asked to leave/escorted out, the doors would be closed, and the Eucharist (aka communion) would then be celebrated.

    There is a part in the Divine Liturgy as it is currently constituted that reflects this, where after the homily and certain prayers for the Catechumen and others, the Deacon intones, "Let the catechumen depart! Depart! Let none of the catechumen remain! As many as are of the Faithful, again and again in peace let us pray to the Lord...."

    Then a couple of litanies for the Faithful, and some hymns, are sung. Then the head Deacon makes a "final check" instruction to the doorkeepers*: "The doors! The doors!" (Meaning, "guard the doors and don't let anyone else in.") Then, once he's sure everything is in order, he intones, "In wisdom let us attend," and the Mystery continues with those remaining confessing their One Faith by the Creed.

    (* "doorkeeper" was and technically still is (although it's become less formal) an actual Order of ministry, albeit a minor one.)

    "Of the Faithful" was defined as those who had been Baptized and not excommunicated.

    Here is a link with more information: Dismissal of the Catechumens: more on Part V of the series…

    So there is a winnowing process as the service moves forward. All are invited to hear the Word preached, but when it comes to communion, it's exclusive not on "saved or unsaved" but on "baptized and keeping the Faith" or not, as judged by the whole Church including (especially) one's own conscience, particularly in the context of the particular relationship with your spiritual father/confessor/elder, who is responsible to the largest extent for your growth in Christ.

    Note that these are objective measures, outwardly known (or at least potentially so -- for nothing is hid that won't be revealed, and a man's conscience knows regardless). Unlike "saved or unsaved" which won't ultimately be known until the final judgment.

    The case you mentioned of the fellow living in adultery -- if it became known, he would have been excommunicated unless/until he repented, and even with repentance probably barred from the chalice for some period of time until he had shown by his life and works that his repentance was sincere. ("Bring forth works meet for repentance.") Likewise with the drug-pushers you mentioned.

    This would all be under the direction of the bishop, ultimately, although the immediate ministry of this discipline and its attendant instructions and prohibitions would be carried out by the spiritual father/confessor and/or the head presbyter of the assembly (assuming that isn't the Bishop himself, of course).

    And they were much more severe about these things in the early days than they are today! See Acts 5, for example. :)
     
    #174 Steve Allen, Aug 24, 2018
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    What was Christ’s emphasis then... you see the scripture so you tell me.
     
    #175 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 24, 2018
  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    You would probably enjoy the Primitive Baptists... my God, I personally do.
     
    #176 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 24, 2018
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  17. Steve Allen

    Steve Allen Member

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    I hold to exactly zero of the five points of Calvinism, so...no thanks. :)

    But I do enjoy hearing the acapella music. (We Orthodox don't use instruments, either, and for largely the same reason.)

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
     
    #177 Steve Allen, Aug 24, 2018
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Would you agree that the church still needs to exercise biblcal discipline when required by someones sinful behavior?
     
    #178 Yeshua1, Aug 24, 2018
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  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The assembly of the redeemed is what church is to be! evangelsim happens outside, while teaching and maturing happens inside!
     
    #179 Yeshua1, Aug 24, 2018
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  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    No, I don't need....nor do any of us need a go between, to tell us what God is about. Jesus has taken away that broker; He is telling us that God is totally accessible so why do I need some human intervention to punish & correct behavior when I have God the Father, The Son Christ & the Holy Spirit to convict the individual? Certainly there is no church on the planet that could have ever have changed me.....It was God that accomplished that by his saving grace. And the Kingdom of God is in your midst (Luke 17:21).

    That is why I indicated that God is available & accessible to anyone who asks....even sometimes to some who could care less & that is what I was stressing with this Baptist thing......Both John the Baptist & Christ are emphasizing that God is as available to you as water and God can raise up children from stones (Matthew 3:8)
     
    #180 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 24, 2018
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