Hello everyone from a church of Christ guy!

Hello everyone! I joined this forum because there is a ton of good healthy dialogue on here. I also want to offer my feedback on anything you’ve wondered about c of c. Since we don’t have a SBC type of governance, my answers may or may not be the same or similar as your church of Christ co-worker or neighbor.

I think there’s a lot of misinformation about my tribe. We are probably nearer to Southern Baptists in 2019 than perhaps any other denomination.

But ask away!

 

I am going to go ahead and toss some things out there that I know have been a point of contention about for a long time.

MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS. Yes, there are those "hard liner" CofC types who claim that there is some sort of biblical justification for acapella music, and I suppose that if you really stretch things, there technically isn't a mention of a musical instrument in the assembly in the NT. Some stick with that. But if you look at CofC history a bit, going back to the Civil War, the lack of pianos/organs in the CofC was more of an economic decision: The south was decimated post war and many of those CoCs simply had no money to buy or replace an expensive instrument.

Later the CoC would split - the Disciples of Christ (DoC) kept the instruments, and the CoC went without. So if you look at the footprint of the DoC and CoC, you find that most DoCs are in the north, most CoCs are in the south. And there are a number of CoCs in the north that do have instruments, and more and more in the south that are adding them.

This isn't a doctrinal issue except for the ignorant and dogmatic. It's really more of a tradition. I am take-it or leave-it on the issue.


COMMUNION. Yes CoCs typically take communion every Sunday, but that's really just following the pattern of the early church. Acts 2:46, "When they came together, they broke bread." Of course, this scripture might or might not be the holy communion, but it's just something CoC follows. But not to the letter: CoC has Wed. night services (and other meetings at the church) where there is no communion. Of course, Jesus said "Do this in remembrance of me," so CoC does it every Sunday. Again, only the most ignorant and dogmatic would claim this to be any sort of deal-breaker for anyone (although I know those types!).


BAPTISM. This is the biggest difference between southern Baptists and Church of Christ. And it boils down to this question: Are you saved before or after you are baptized? Quite honestly, there are strong, well-thought-out lines of thought on BOTH sides of this issue. BOTH denominations place a high priority on baptism. But for the Church of Christ, once you decide you want to become a Christian, it's more of a 5-alarm fire (no pun intended) to get to the water. In the Baptist church, it's all good, wait until baptism Sunday. I don't condemn the Baptists for their line of thinking, because I fully understand it (baptism isn't a work).

But I am personally a bit MORE COMFORTABLE with CofC on the issue, for two reasons: One, the Ethiopian unoch felt an urgency to be baptized immediately. Second, I am not aware of a conversion in the NT without baptism. You just keep bumping into it. Jesus did it, told us to do it, and his last words were "go, tell, and baptize". Are you saved before or after? That's like debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Only God saves. But the water piece is important. Baptists place a very high importance on it, and CofC places a matter of urgent importance on it. I don't see it as a salvation issue either way - I've never personally met a Baptist follower of Christ who wasn't baptized.

Now, what DOES bother me...there is a non-denominational mega church here that is doing GREAT things. But I got a bulletin last year in the mail as to their youth evangelism. It said something like "We had 82 people saved this year in the youth; 13 baptisms." To me, something isn't getting taught there that is very important. If not even 15 percent think immersion is important, that's kind of messed up. I don't like it at all.

There is a misconception that baptism can only be performed by a minister, etc. Not true. I baptized both my son and my daughter and I am just a regular guy. I, myself, got re-baptized 5 years ago in my neighbor's hot tub. Not because I didn't feel I was saved beforehand, but because I was 15 years old when I was first baptized and I did it only for peer pressure - I did not give my life to Christ and there was no sincere pledge of good conscience. I just wanted to fix that.

OK guys take your shots!

 

Oh absolutely. I am just most familiar with SBC in my particular area. I do have a good friend in eastern TN who is Primitive Baptist. Goodness, I thought some of these Churches of Christ were conservative!

I look forward to a lot of good conversations.

 

I didn't realize that CoC had a heavy presence on the left coast.

 

I am with you. I don't think either side of the issue is wrong. It's a matter of interpretation and literal application of liturgy. They zig, we zag. Only when we decide that either position is some sort of new law do we then enter into dangerous territory. A Church of Christ is in error if it is making it a "doctrinal" issue. It is tradition. But churches have a way of turning tradition into doctrine if they aren't careful.

Several times per year we attend other, non CofC churches that have varying amounts of instruments, not to mention Las Vegas-style props and smoke machines. I have no scriptural problem with any of it.

With some of these churches, however, I get into more of a practical problem: If the assembly (and it's not worship, but that's another topic altogether) is intended to be inclusive and participatory among all of the saints, it is pretty difficult when the performers are doing a weekly "Put'n on the hits" of the latest Contemporary Christian songs that no one knows the words or melody to, and the sound is cranked up to a point where you can't hear anyone but the stage performers anyway.

 

I think "mainline" churches of all sorts of denominations are shrinking in alarming numbers everywhere. In the information age, folks are not particularly brand loyal when it comes to their church. Consumerism is playing a big part. And many (most?) mainline churches have a ton of baggage cooked into their DNA that creates barriers to reaching folks that need the Lord. Rules and regs, policies and procedures, and all sorts of other garbage.

My son is in college at Oklahoma State University, and he absolutely loves the Lord. But he attends THREE different churches during a week! On Sunday a.m, he will attend the local church of Christ, and for other things, he will attend a Baptist church, and he has a small group and a few other activities at a church called "Life Church". Wow!

The new "Bible" or "non-denominational" fellowships often aren't encumbered with such and so they have a broad appeal. The danger is that many of these are strictly "top down" management. The lead pastor runs the show, and his fingerprints are often on every last detail. And when his personal theology drifts (i.e. Joseph Smith) yet (s)he has a large personal following, you are set up for disaster.

 

There are an increasing number of instrumental CofCs. There is a strain of CofC that is highly dogmatic about no instruments (and a number of other liturgical issues).

As for baptism and its necessity, I think we quickly get caught up in the weeds of semantics on this. Only God saves. That said, I am not aware of a NT conversion where baptism wasn't involved. That's enough to say it is necessary for me. I believe even the Rev. Billy Graham has been quoted that baptism is "necessary", though he stops short of saying "required." Again, we are getting into some "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" type stuff. There are well-founded and articulate positions on both sides of the issue, and I appreciate and respect both of them. Whether salvation occurs the moment before, the moment of, or the moment after you are dunked, I'll let God sort that out. Since he works outside of the threshold of time, he is up to the task.

Since I do not personally know of either a Baptist nor a CoC member who hasn't been baptized, the issue is moot with me.

 

Yeah, I've heard that too. Weak. That's some 50's style CoC stuff. God can save who he wants, when he wants, and how he wants.

That said, those old convents give me the creeps.

 

Well then, if I’m Baptist I should then have access to the Baptist-only forums.