If faith is predestined and cause by God, then answer me this.....

[Dave G]

@Calminian
Apologies to the OP for my earlier statement.
I had forgotten my intentions in post # 41 ...

THIS is my last reply in this thread.

 

[MB]

The Eye-Popping Cost of Medicare for All

Back to the o/p - one has to be careful if one is depending on the government for oversight of one's Medicare health plan.
Uncle will not tell you if a better plan exists for you in any given year - you have oversight not them.

For 2020 I redid my Medicare Advantage plan, reduced my monthly premium from $129.00 to $82.00 - similar coverage.
In addition I now have a dental plan included.

They also failed to inform me that the drug Lyrica (not an opioid) went generic (Pregabalin) and went from $800.00 to $20.00 per month for a typical prescription. Lyrica/Pregablin was on my request list, it helps relieve neuropathy pain.

You still have time. LORD willing.

Who did you get the advantage plan from?
MB

 

[HankD]

Who did you get the advantage plan from?
MB

Kaiser Permanente - careful, different states different plans.

 

[Alan Gross]

.....why must it then be credited as righteousness?

Take a look at the following passages.

Gen. 15:6 Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

Rom. 4:2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.a 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Rom. 4:5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Rom. 4:6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Rom. 4:11.....So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.

Rom. 4:21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.​

This is a strong theme in Paul's writings. God credits faith as righteousness. This seems to preclude the idea that faith as any merit whatsoever. Thus, it seems pointless for God to predestine and cause something that is inadequate to save. Faith, in and of itself, does not acquire salvation. It cannot, according to Paul. It must be credited as righteousness by God. So, even if the believer makes the choice to believe, he cannot take any credit for his salvation, as belief, in and of itself, gains him nothing. He is still just as undeserving as the unbeliever, and God is not obligated to save believers or unbelievers. It's still 100% God's doing and 100% God's choice.

God Gave Abraham Conviction of his sins, Holy Spirit Wrought Repentance and Faith in The Object of Righteousness, Who Obtained Perfect Righteousness, by Being Virgin Born, under The Universal Moral Law of God, and Lived Perfectly.

That Perfect Life was Sacrificed for Abraham, The Just for the unjust.

 

[Reformed1689]

The Eye-Popping Cost of Medicare for All

Back to the o/p - one has to be careful if one is depending on the government for oversight of one's Medicare health plan.
Uncle will not tell you if a better plan exists for you in any given year - you have oversight not them.

For 2020 I redid my Medicare Advantage plan, reduced my monthly premium from $129.00 to $82.00 - similar coverage.
In addition I now have a dental plan included.

They also failed to inform me that the drug Lyrica (not an opioid) went generic (Pregabalin) and went from $800.00 to $20.00 per month for a typical prescription. Lyrica/Pregablin was on my request list, it helps relieve neuropathy pain.

You still have time. LORD willing.

Wow, you have some of the more expensive advantage plans. And if they did not inform you of generics they aren't doing their job. I should know. I'm an insurance agent

 

[Noah Hirsch]

.....why must it then be credited as righteousness?

Take a look at the following passages.

Gen. 15:6 Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

Rom. 4:2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.a 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Rom. 4:5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Rom. 4:6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Rom. 4:11.....So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.

Rom. 4:21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.​

This is a strong theme in Paul's writings. God credits faith as righteousness. This seems to preclude the idea that faith as any merit whatsoever. Thus, it seems pointless for God to predestine and cause something that is inadequate to save. Faith, in and of itself, does not acquire salvation. It cannot, according to Paul. It must be credited as righteousness by God. So, even if the believer makes the choice to believe, he cannot take any credit for his salvation, as belief, in and of itself, gains him nothing. He is still just as undeserving as the unbeliever, and God is not obligated to save believers or unbelievers. It's still 100% God's doing and 100% God's choice.

Yes, God credits faith for righteousness insomuch as, He declares us righteous through faith by imputing (crediting) the righteousness of Jesus Christ to our account. Our faith is counted for righteousness insomuch as, by faith we lay hold of the righteousness of Jesus Christ. This is not contrary at all to the truth that God chose and predestined certain individuals to salvation through faith in the truth.

“But we are bound always to give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief in the truth:” (2 Thessalonians 2:13 ASV)

It is the elect who believe, and thus are justified by the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

“and whom he did foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified...Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth;” (Romans 8:30, 33 ASV)

“And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.” (Acts 13:48 ASV)

 

[HankD]

Wow, you have some of the more expensive advantage plans. And if they did not inform you of generics they aren't doing their job. I should know. I'm an insurance agent

I live in WA State, Mason County. I have a Delta Dental contract along with my Advantage Contract.

 

[Reformed1689]

I live in WA State, Mason County. I have a Delta Dental contract along with my Advantage Contract.

Wow that Kaiser plan got a 5-star rating. That is RARE.

 

[HankD]

Wow that Kaiser plan got a 5-star rating. That is RARE.

They do treat us well.

 

[George Antonios]

To me, that is precisely the point...
Faith has no merit whatseover.

When you have verses telling you that for faith, God imputes righteousness unto a man, would you please prove what you said with scriptures...with scriptures (not, with "well then if that is true, then this" arguments)? As to claiming that faith is a work, or that it comes from God and not at all from man, please see this first (if possible):

 

[Reformed1689]

When you have verses telling you that for faith, God imputes righteousness unto a man, would you please prove what you said with scriptures...with scriptures (not, with "well then if that is true, then this" arguments)? As to claiming that faith is a work, or that it comes from God and not at all from man, please see this first (if possible):

Interested but can't view YouTube. What is the video about....

 

[Noah Hirsch]

When you have verses telling you that for faith, God imputes righteousness unto a man, would you please prove what you said with scriptures...with scriptures (not, with "well then if that is true, then this" arguments)? As to claiming that faith is a work, or that it comes from God and not at all from man, please see this first (if possible):

Scripture says:

Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him. (2 Corinthians 5:21 ASV)

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption: (1 Corinthians 1:30 ASV)

“Behold, the days come,” says Yahweh, “that I will raise to David a righteous Branch; and he will reign as king and deals wisely, and will execute justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely. This is his name by which he will be called: Yahweh our righteousness. (Jeremiah 23:5-6 WEB)

Jesus the Messiah, the righteous Branch, the offspring of David who is very Yahweh became flesh (John 1:14) and is our righteousness before God.

If Christ Himself is our righteousness, then how can we be justified by faith in the sense that God counts our faith as being itself our righteousness whereby we are justified? Does it not follow from these Scriptures that we are justified by faith in the sense that it is by faith that we lay hold off and receive the righteousness of Jesus Christ, which righteousness is our righteousness before God?

It is possible to be faith into a work by trusting in your faith as itself your righteousness before God rather than by faith resting in Christ and His righteousness.

 

[OldArmy]

Some say it's the elect that believe, I understand it, those who believe are the elect. The difference?

One invites people to believe, the other doesn't care if you do or don't. If you don't, oh well vessel made for destruction for his glory.

Here's the thing, philosophically, and by definition belief and faith aren't the same thing.

A person believes something based upon evidence. Faith is belief lacking

Scripture says:

Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him. (2 Corinthians 5:21 ASV)

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption: (1 Corinthians 1:30 ASV)

“Behold, the days come,” says Yahweh, “that I will raise to David a righteous Branch; and he will reign as king and deals wisely, and will execute justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely. This is his name by which he will be called: Yahweh our righteousness. (Jeremiah 23:5-6 WEB)

Jesus the Messiah, the righteous Branch, the offspring of David who is very Yahweh became flesh (John 1:14) and is our righteousness before God.

If Christ Himself is our righteousness, then how can we be justified by faith in the sense that God counts our faith as being itself our righteousness whereby we are justified? Does it not follow from these Scriptures that we are justified by faith in the sense that it is by faith that we lay hold off and receive the righteousness of Jesus Christ, which righteousness is our righteousness before God?

It is possible to be faith into a work by trusting in your faith as itself your righteousness before God rather than by faith resting in Christ and His righteousness.

John 3:16, just saying...

 

[Alan Gross]

I do not know of any evidence that The Bible, or anyone, anywhere else, or that:

you have verses telling you that for faith, God imputes righteousness unto a man

and I do not believe any evidence exists.

 

[Noah Hirsch]

Some say it's the elect that believe, I understand it, those who believe are the elect. The difference?

One invites people to believe, the other doesn't care if you do or don't. If you don't, oh well vessel made for destruction for his glory.

Here's the thing, philosophically, and by definition belief and faith aren't the same thing.

A person believes something based upon evidence. Faith is belief lacking


John 3:16, just saying...

Some say it's the elect that believe, I understand it, those who believe are the elect. The difference?

One invites people to believe, the other doesn't care if you do or don't. If you don't, oh well vessel made for destruction for his glory.

Here's the thing, philosophically, and by definition belief and faith aren't the same thing.

A person believes something based upon evidence. Faith is belief lacking


John 3:16, just saying...

Yes, whoever believes will have eternal life. Yes, God sent His Son to die for the sins of all humanity without exception. Yes, God offers the forgiveness of sins which is in Jesus Christ to all men. No, this does not mean God has not chosen some for salvation and predestined others for wrath.

John Calvin himself in his commentary on John 3:16 writes, “And he employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all discriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God...he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ...Let us remember, on the other hand, that while life is promised universally to all who believe in Christ, still faith is not common to all...but the elect alone are they whose eye God opens, that they may seek him by faith.” (Calvin’s Commentary, John 3:16)

 

[Alan Gross]

Yes, whoever believes will have eternal life. Yes, God sent His Son to die for the sins of all humanity without exception. Yes, God offers the forgiveness of sins which is in Jesus Christ to all men. No, this does not mean God has not chosen some for salvation and predestined others for wrath.

John Calvin himself in his commentary on John 3:16 writes, “And he employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all discriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God...he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ...Let us remember, on the other hand, that while life is promised universally to all who believe in Christ, still faith is not common to all...but the elect alone are they whose eye God opens, that they may seek him by faith.” (Calvin’s Commentary, John 3:16)

"whosoever believes" are The Elect.

"whosoever does not believe", and/ or whosoever possesses an actual practice of 'Belief', that is no different than a child 'having Belief' in Santa Claus, Will Perish from anything good, into an Eternity of Suffering in The Torments of Hell, for their Eternal sin Against The Eternal God of The Universe, Who Wrote The Bible.

 

[Particular]

Some say it's the elect that believe, I understand it, those who believe are the elect. The difference?

One invites people to believe, the other doesn't care if you do or don't. If you don't, oh well vessel made for destruction for his glory.

Here's the thing, philosophically, and by definition belief and faith aren't the same thing.

A person believes something based upon evidence. Faith is belief lacking


John 3:16, just saying...

Every Christian calls out to every person saying, "Repent and be reconciled to God." Some will. Some won't. Why?
First, it is not natural for the rebel to repent. In fact, a rebel will not repent and when God comes to them they will, like Adam and Eve, hide in fear. They will not willfully repent and seek reconciliation.
Therefore, God graciously chooses whom He wills. He knows that all rebels will naturally flee. So, He pursues whom He wills and He captures them. He chooses.
God does not, ever, give us foreknowledge into who he has chosen to reconcile. He simply expects His servants to obey. "Go into all the world and make disciples. Teaching and baptizing..."
We Christians make no distinction to whom we share the message of reconciliation. We share with all. We trust our King to choose as He sees fit.
Where we likely disagree is that I believe that humans (like Adam and Eve) cannot resist God's call when He calls them to quit hiding and be reconciled. I suspect you believe humans have the power and authority to resist God...even unto damnation.
So, our difference is in how we view humans and how we view God.

 

[OldArmy]

In another thread

Every Christian calls out to every person saying, "Repent and be reconciled to God." Some will. Some won't. Why?
First, it is not natural for the rebel to repent. In fact, a rebel will not repent and when God comes to them they will, like Adam and Eve, hide in fear. They will not willfully repent and seek reconciliation.
Therefore, God graciously chooses whom He wills. He knows that all rebels will naturally flee. So, He pursues whom He wills and He captures them. He chooses.
God does not, ever, give us foreknowledge into who he has chosen to reconcile. He simply expects His servants to obey. "Go into all the world and make disciples. Teaching and baptizing..."
We Christians make no distinction to whom we share the message of reconciliation. We share with all. We trust our King to choose as He sees fit.
Where we likely disagree is that I believe that humans (like Adam and Eve) cannot resist God's call when He calls them to quit hiding and be reconciled. I suspect you believe humans have the power and authority to resist God...even unto damnation.
So, our difference is in how we view humans and how we view God.

Reference the parable about the sower sowing seed. That's my best non-calvinist answer to this so far. ( Mark 4:1-9 )

 

[George Antonios]

Scripture says:

Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him. (2 Corinthians 5:21 ASV)

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption: (1 Corinthians 1:30 ASV)

“Behold, the days come,” says Yahweh, “that I will raise to David a righteous Branch; and he will reign as king and deals wisely, and will execute justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely. This is his name by which he will be called: Yahweh our righteousness. (Jeremiah 23:5-6 WEB)

Jesus the Messiah, the righteous Branch, the offspring of David who is very Yahweh became flesh (John 1:14) and is our righteousness before God.

If Christ Himself is our righteousness, then how can we be justified by faith in the sense that God counts our faith as being itself our righteousness whereby we are justified? Does it not follow from these Scriptures that we are justified by faith in the sense that it is by faith that we lay hold off and receive the righteousness of Jesus Christ, which righteousness is our righteousness before God?

It is possible to be faith into a work by trusting in your faith as itself your righteousness before God rather than by faith resting in Christ and His righteousness.

I hear you. Now please keep in mind that, according to the scriptures [not according to pre-defined theology] a man has the ability to believe the gospel or reject it and that that faith is not reckoned of God as a work. You are right that we avail ourselves of the righteousness of our Lord Jesus Christ by believing; that faith is the means of obtaining that righteousness. But the believing in itself, is also a righteous thing - not a work...this is key, God doesn't look upon faith as a work - but a righteous thing. Unless one considers believing the gospel a wicked thing? Of course not. Now, that believing, even though it's righteous, does not, on its own, earn a man salvation, because I could, say, believe God about something else, like the promise of his second coming for example, but that would not impute unto me righteousness. Only believing in Jesus Christ does so, because thus Christ's righteousness is imputed to me. It's simply the means of obtaining the grace of God, for by grace are ye saved, through faith.
I understand the Calvinist reflex of almost gagging at someone saying that faith is counted of God as a righteous thing, but we must go by God's own words and not be more royal than the King. If he said that he counts my believing as righteousness, then OK Lord, I'll take it. (Keep in mind, that believing, in of itself does not save me, only the object in which I place my trust, namely, Jesus Christ, can save me; and that faith is not a work in the Bible).
This teaching is far less preposterous than the idea that we were elect [I did not say "saved", I said "elect"] based on a criterion other than Jesus Christ, which is what Calvinism teaches.

 

[George Antonios]

Interested but can't view YouTube. What is the video about....

Ah, sorry about that then. It's Ok, they're things you and I have already discussed. It was just a reminder.