The two Beasts of Revelation Identified

[DanielConway]

I was looking for an eschatology section to post this but couldn't find one, so I am putting it here instead. A few thoughts on Revelation 13 for your consideration. Please excuse the condition of the manuscript, it is a bit marked up.

The two beasts of Revelation Identified

 

[agedman]

I sped read through the link.

One of the difficulties with any presentation of the beasts is proper alignment, and especially those in which some make in which the "lock down" on certain events as determiners.

"Maping previous historical themes on to Revelation 13" has been done multiple times in the past, so the author is correct in presenting that there is nothing new in the paper as far as to the record or trend(s).

I do hope the author is not consumed in the preterist position, and the error of the Roman Catholic priest who devised that scheme. It was done in order to thwart another scheme, and neither scheme is historically accurate to the grammar of the Scriptures. Rather, both assume much allegorical presentations of Scriptures that are better taken as factual.

One of the moves by most schemes is to downplay the role of the Roman Catholic hierarchy as the false prophet.

The only scheme that consistently presents that as factual is the typical old school dispensational thinking (pre-Darby) which acknowledges that great apostasy continually growing in power and influence especially as the time grows shorter to the return of the King and the kingdom is established on the earth for a 1000 years.

John shows that development in the Revelation.

However, one reading the Revelation must remember (as I posted yesterday) it is not to be read as a child's writing which is one long sentence with "and then" connecting each event.

But that is for another thread.

 

[DanielConway]

I sped read through the link.

One of the difficulties with any presentation of the beasts is proper alignment, and especially those in which some make in which the "lock down" on certain events as determiners.

"Maping previous historical themes on to Revelation 13" has been done multiple times in the past, so the author is correct in presenting that there is nothing new in the paper as far as to the record or trend(s).

I do hope the author is not consumed in the preterist position, and the error of the Roman Catholic priest who devised that scheme. It was done in order to thwart another scheme, and neither scheme is historically accurate to the grammar of the Scriptures. Rather, both assume much allegorical presentations of Scriptures that are better taken as factual.

One of the moves by most schemes is to downplay the role of the Roman Catholic hierarchy as the false prophet.

The only scheme that consistently presents that as factual is the typical old school dispensational thinking (pre-Darby) which acknowledges that great apostasy continually growing in power and influence especially as the time grows shorter to the return of the King and the kingdom is established on the earth for a 1000 years.

John shows that development in the Revelation.

However, one reading the Revelation must remember (as I posted yesterday) it is not to be read as a child's writing which is one long sentence with "and then" connecting each event.

But that is for another thread.

I think the strongest arguement in favor of my construct is biblical consistency. If successively arising beasts represent successively arising kingdoms in Daniel, they should represent the same thing in Revelation. The only innovation in interpretive technique is to account for the fact that the second beast arises out of the earth earth rather than the sea. I map this onto the fact that the later empire was a kind of unholy resurrection of the early empire.

 

[robycop3]

Well, ACTUALLY...

The two beasts haven't yet come. The first will be the "man of sin/son of perdition" Daniel & Paul wrote about. The second will be his sidekick, the false prophet.

 

[Shoostie]

I was looking for an eschatology section to post this but couldn't find one, so I am putting it here instead. A few thoughts on Revelation 13 for your consideration. Please excuse the condition of the manuscript, it is a bit marked up.

The two beasts of Revelation Identified

Is the second beast the late Roman empire? It seems a good point that the second beast comes out of the ground and had the authority of the first beast. To further than augment, ΛΑΤΕΙΝΟΣ is the number 666 and it means Latin, as in the Latin Roman empire.

 

[agedman]

Is the second beast the late Roman empire? It seems a good point that the second beast comes out of the ground and had the authority of the first beast. To further than augment, ΛΑΤΕΙΝΟΣ is the number 666 and it means Latin, as in the Latin Roman empire.

Nero’s suicide was in the late 60’s.

The Revelation was written in the 90’s.

I am not discrediting your statement, only to point that as John said, there are “many anti-Christ’s”.

I propose that that vicious Nero of old is repeated in progressively worse people is emulated by the significance of the number rather than the number itself. That John uses Nero as type, not directly.

Each world tyrant is branded as viciously evil, and such carry that significance, as do their followers.

But there will be one more cunning than any before and more vicious than all. That which controlled Nero controls all Nero’s is the significance of the number. All Nero’s carry that mark, that brand.

 

[DanielConway]

\

Well, ACTUALLY...

The two beasts haven't yet come. The first will be the "man of sin/son of perdition" Daniel & Paul wrote about. The second will be his sidekick, the false prophet.

I know that is standard dispensationalist doctrine, but there have always been other constructs out there. There is nothing in the text of revelation 13 that identifies the first beast as the man of sin. The similarities between the fourth beast of Daniel's vision and the first beast of John's vision are so strong that one must at least consider that that the two seers are here referring to the same thing. Additionally, the distortions introduced into gospel introduced by the Constantinian era are more than enough to identify the later empire as the false prophet.

 

[robycop3]

The two 'beasts' will be PEOPLE, And there's no reason to suppose the 'man of sin', the antichrist, & the 'beast from the sea' won't be the same man. daniel, Paul, & the angel narrating the Revelation to John all say he won't recognize any god but himself.
And the beast from the earth will be his sidekick & spokesman.
The "marka the beast' will be some sorta microchip. The tech for implantable MCs exists now, but the chips aren't capable yet of holding all of a person's info & financial records. But that tech could be developed within months.

As for Nero, he failed to meet many of the Scriptural criteria for the 'beast', while the true beast will fulfill all of them, to the letter.